I am looking to make a PFS legal sword based melee fighter. I know I do not want swashbuckler because of theme nor a lumbering two handed sword fighter. I already have a nice Warpriest with a falchion. I am curious about the Aldori Swordlord archetype/Prestige class. Is it good for PFS? Or Samurai with a Katana? Was thinking when high enough to go Duelist Prestige Class if not the Aldori Swordlord prestige class. Just looking for the best possible sword based melee combatant. Many thanks.
Are you sure we can't interest you in a nice Daring Champion Cavalier?
It is an archetype that trades away the horse stuff.... for swashbuckler things. Still, it can be nice since you get your level in attacks from precises strike, and you can add your level in attacks with a challenge (and heck, add your level again by pumping 1 panche into precise strike).
I mostly suggest this since precise strike just really makes 1 handed/1 weapon shine. For full BAB, (assuming you are also using power attack, or something similar), it puts your damage right on par with a 2handed full BAB character with decent strength. It is basically meant to put that style on a level playing field.
Of course, the playing field at those is not so wide that you can't make up for it in other ways, I suppose. If you grab arcane strike via an SLA (light bringer trait is nice since it uses your level for caster level), then it would mostly work out. That also leaves room for that new Riving Strike feat (which makes casters love you, since it forces a no save debuff of -2 on saves against spells).
i am basically looking to play a sword wielding (not rapier or great sword or falchion- already have toons with those) uppity minor noble dueling combatant for PFS play. Cavalier, Samurai, Slayer, Fighter, or any archetype or combo that allows me to play a skilled bladed weapon combatant. i do not know much about this area since i usually play archers. whether it is saw toothed saber, katana, elven curved blade, aldori longsword, etc. as long as he can do damage and survive and fun to play.
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As an FYI - if you take slashing grace you can use any slashing weapon as a daring cavalier. (And really - that's the way to go with that class.)
Jack up your dex, dump strength down to 8-10 (once you get slashing grace only encumbrance matters) and jack your dex up to 18-19 at 1st level. For panache - scimitar (or katana if you don't mind burning a feat) is a good choice, though with precise strike you actually get less benefit from usual from the crit damage since it's precision damage.
But really - there are a lot of sword wielding builds. You'll have to narrow it down a bit. You just want to wield a single weapon / shield? TWF? Manuver based?
How about the Aldori Swordlord?
Dunno if you can pull it off within 12 lvls of PFS play though.
Ruyan.
EDIT: Reading comprehension failure, you mention the PrC yourself, sorry.
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There is nothing stopping you from using a regular sword as a Swashbuckler/Daring Champion Cavalier. Rapier is not manaatory, you can use any one handed slashing weapon with Slashing Grace or a Scimitar with Dervish Dance.
Longsword, Falcata, Urumi, Katana, Bastard Sword, Scimitar, Rhoka, Nine Ring Broadsword, Terbutje, Khopesh, Shotel, Double chicken saber, and Temple Sword are all one handed swords that can be used with slashing grace.
There is nothing stopping you from using a regular sword as a Swashbuckler/Daring Champion Cavalier. Rapier is not manaatory, you can use any one handed slashing weapon with Slashing Grace or a Scimitar with Dervish Dance.
Longsword, Falcata, Urumi, Katana, Bastard Sword, Scimitar, Rhoka, Nine Ring Broadsword, Terbutje, Khopesh, Shotel, Double chicken saber, and Temple Sword are all one handed swords that can be used with slashing grace.
Plus, even without slashing grace (cause that is a bit feat intensive, and a lot of those suggested weapons after the longsword are far from 'regular'), you could grab a gladius. It is a short sword that does slashing (and even counts as a short sword for feats and such).
This is what i am initially thinking for my swordsman. I debated between a straight fighter and a slayer. I went with slayer due to their better skills and saves.
Human
1st-Bonus Human- Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Elven Curved Blade.
1st- Weapon Finesse
2nd- Slayer Talent- Ranger Combat Style (Two Handed)- Power Attack
3rd- Cleave
4th- Slayer Talent- Rogue Weapon Training- Weapon Focus (ECB)
5th- Slashing Grace
6th- Slayer Talent- Ranger Combat Style (Two Handed)- Furious Focus
6th FCB- Dodge
7th- Combat Expertise
8th- Slayer Talent- Combat Trick-Improved Disarm
9th- Mobility
10th Slayer Talent-Combat Trick- Spring Attack
11th- Improved Critical
12th- Slayer Talent-Improved Initiative
12th FCB-Vital Strike
At 12th level a human slayer putting his FCB into the 1/6 bonus combat feat and slayer talents to combat tricks/combat styles, will have 15 Feats. A lvl 12 Fighter will have 14 feats, plus worse saves and lower skill points. Whaddayall think?
Slashing grace will not work with the Elven Curve Blade. It's a Two-handed weapon and slashing Grace only works with one handed weapons. If you want to use Slashing Grace, you need to switch to the Aldori Dueling Blade if you are not taking Swashbuckler/Daring Champion.
Or he could just make his elven curved blade agile. That is always an option, since it is finessable.
I know a lot of people on these boards seem to be against that idea, but it is not a bad deal with the elven curved blade and regular swashbucklers. That is because the fighting styles used with those requires only 1 weapon. The reason why agile is sometimes seen as problematic is because it is a +1 to the price of enhancing your weapon... which is a problem for TWF (since they pay for 2 weapons).
But with elven curved blade and swashbucklers? It is a fair enough deal. It is comparable to the improved critical/keen debate- which resource to use, money or feats? I personally see it leaning more towards the agile property, in some respects, due to the need for weapon focus as a prerequisite for slashing grace.
And I am not an expert in PFS, but if he was considering getting that feat around level 5-6 anyway... it might be worth debating depending on budget and availability.
Except most of the swashbuckler deeds and features need a light or one-handed weapon as well. Is a 1:3 power attack ratio worth the loss of Precise Strike and Swashbuckler Weapon Training?
Oh, I meant agile weapons in general. An agile rapier or dagger, for example.
The elven curved blade is mostly just a thing for dex based slayers/rangers/etc. I fully acknowledge that it is not great for swashbucklers. Their damage boosting mechanics, the swashbuckler's weapon training, does not apply, so it is a downgrade (I do not count precise strike so much, since it mostly serves to make up for the difference between 1 handing and 2 handing)
I listed it like that to mean that there are usually two optimal users of 1 weapons styles for dex builds- those with elven curved blade, and those with precise strike (and flurry users, I suppose; that is off topic though). Sorry for any confusion.
EDIT- thinking about it, you said samurai with katanas were acceptable, right? Does this build ahve to be dex based? I mean, you can make a rather mean sohei build using nodachi (which are just large katanas for most purposes).
Sohei can wear light armor (so you can grab fairly non MAD stats, and even STR), and they get martial weapons. Once they hit level 6, they can flurry with the weapon group they pick for weapon training (so pole arms and nodachi... yeah, it is weird). I know, a bit of a late start...but hey, you are swinging a 18-20/x2 2handed weapon for levels 1-5, so no loss. And the fun part is that 2 handed weapons get 1.5x power attack, even across all of the attacks of flurry. Overall, not a bad choice for decent damage.
OK, suppose i make my ECB agile, would it be worth dipping into the Duelist Prestige Class? I admit i do not know enough about them. I will have to look at Samurai/Sohei. Many thanks.
From what I'm reading, I think you might be looking for one of the more melee type Bard Archetypes.
Archaeologists
Dervish of the Dawn
Dervish DancerThey can be decent melee fighters, good skills, and access to spells.
The Dawnflower Dervish (the actual name- the site you use faced copyright issues) is fairly good, since it gives boosts similar to rage. Oddly, since those boosts are on each and every hit, they are better off ditching dervish dance and grabbing TWF.
Archaeologist luck is also comparable to rage if you grab the fate's favored trait (it gives a +1 to luck bonuses- that brings it up to +2 at level 1). Be sure to also grab Lingering performance- since it allows your performance (the luck counts for feats) to last 2 rounds after you end it. So use a round of luck, stop using it at the end of your turn, and then let it ride for 2 turns. Thus, your effective rounds/day are tripled. That means you effectively have 18 rounds/day with a modest CHA of 14 (and that one 'of the society' trait would add another 9 rounds with this set up)
Toons?MMO-speak for character.
Dagnabbit, you kids and your MMOs and your toons and your fancy schmancy DPR calculators. Back in my day we all used the same nomenclature and liked it!
Sword Saint Samurai might be another option worth looking into. The samurai class initially seems all over the place, but remember that you don't have to take advantage of every class feature for the class to be good for you. Sword Saint drops a lot of mounted stuff for a rather unique mechanic. They're not the best numbers-wise, but I feel you're not necessarily just looking for the best numbers.
I could be wrong. I haven't actually built one for play yet, so I don't know if they end up being a trap option.
Pathfinder is a MMO now?Toons?MMO-speak for character.
And is this slang from Toon town?
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I could be wrong. I haven't actually built one for play yet, so I don't know if they end up being a trap option.
They're not a horrible archetype. If you're going to do a bunch of stuff where your mount won't come into play, they're not bad. Plus - if you take the Blade of Mercy trait you can be Rurouni Kenshin!
Other than the mounted archery though (which is silly combined with focusing on the longbow since you can't actually use a longbow while mounted :P) the samurai isn't that all over the place.
Their Resolve ability is awesome. It's nearly Improved Iron Will / Improved Great Fortitude multiple times a day (roll twice b4 result instead of re-rolling), plus another few little things. And at level 9 they can use resolve points to ignore being critted. (awesome!)
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Other than the mounted archery though (which is silly combined with focusing on the longbow since you can't actually use a longbow while mounted :P) the samurai isn't that all over the place.
Well, you can use a daikyu while mounted, but unfortunately, pathfinder doesn't make an exception for this.
....composite longbows can be used while mounted.
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Do you believe the opposite is true?After the last time, I'm trying not to get in that argument on the boards again.You do know that the name of your class does not define you?
I think you are needlessly limiting yourself, simply because the name of a class doesn't suite you.
Nope. I feel a class is just a collection of mechanics that allows you to create your character's abilities.
But I ended up being dragged into an argument about how a sohei didn't match someone's special snowflake backstory of being someone who was trying to be the best flying kicker ever, because they quote "took off time training unarmed damage to play with Garfield, Scooby Doo and his friends."
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I've been playing a PFS Sword Saint (the one Samurai archetype) and she's been great. She hits REALLY hard, and the iaijustsu ability is both devistating and a bit of a gamble, so it's pretty fun without being overpowered. There is a bit of a downside in that she is squishyish (bad AC for the first few levels, and not great saves) but she does a LOT of damage on a hit, especially with power attack. She does have to two-hand her Katana to do it though.
The character is pretty technical to play as you often have to keep your weapon sheathed in order to prepare for Iaijutsu, so buy a spiked gauntlet so you can still flank and take AoOs.
But the sword saint works great for dueling. Huge damage on the opening if she hits. If you choose the Ronin order, then you get bonuses against people who challenge/smite you (It's only happened to me once in PFS play though, sadly. Not a lot of antipaladins/cavaliers/Clerics with the evil domain that you go up against.) Still, when I was only level 4 when I managed to crit for 50 damage on an iaijutsu and basically take down a big abboration monster in one hit.
The Resolve helps you power through will saves, the class is just good. You don't have a horse with a sword saint, but it doesn't sound like a horse is what you want.
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Yeah - the Ronin's challange ability is pretty weak. (I took that with my samurai partially for fluff reasons.) The level 2 ability of re-rolling will saves is pretty sweet though.
Why do you have weak AC? Wouldn't it be the same as every other heavy armor character in the game without a shield? (Except fighters who can get a bit higher with armor training.)
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Yeah - the Ronin's challange ability is pretty weak. (I took that with my samurai partially for fluff reasons.) The level 2 ability of re-rolling will saves is pretty sweet though.
Why do you have weak AC? Wouldn't it be the same as every other heavy armor character in the game without a shield? (Except fighters who can get a bit higher with armor training.)
No, that's basically it. You have only your heavy armor and probably little to no dex (max dex bonus being what it is) to protect you. I was at 18 AC for my first three levels. Now I'm level 5 and my AC is a massive 23. Meanwhile my friend the tower-shield specialist has an AC of 29. And you aren't a barb so you can't rely on your d12 hit die and +4 con while raging to save you.
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So - you have solid AC and are comparing youself to a tower-shield user. :P
But yeah - you get 20+magic/feats, while he gets 24+magic/feats (and maybe extra dex bonus from armor training) plus he has another slot to stack on magic bonuses. With resolve though - you should, in effect, have better defenses vs magic. (unless perhaps he's a dwarf)
A barb would likely be considerably lower though. (Med armor - and even lower when raging)
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So - you have solid AC and are comparing youself to a tower-shield user. :P
But yeah - you get 20+magic/feats, while he gets 24+magic/feats (and maybe extra dex bonus from armor training) plus he has another slot to stack on magic bonuses. With resolve though - you should, in effect, have better defenses vs magic. (unless perhaps he's a dwarf)
A barb would likely be considerably lower though. (Med armor - and even lower when raging)
Yes, I know and realize this. I'm just saying that there is a downside to the build I made, and that is that she is a damage dealer and not much of a tank. Something to keep in mind, if an enemy gets a couple of lucky shots on me I go down. I have found it difficult to stay up if enemies focus fire on me. If that is not the kind of character the OP wants to build, then they should steer clear. Just giving them the good sides of the build and the downsides.
Well since ECB and Slashing Grace do not synch, then I guess the Slayer will take the Aldori Dueling Sword as his Exotic WP. Another question I pose to you smart folks, at lvl 6 the Slayer should qualify for either the Duelist prestige class or Aldori swordlord prestige class, is either one better than the other? Looking in terms of damage output and AC buff/incoming damage mitigation. Many thanks.
Well since ECB and Slashing Grace do not synch, then I guess the Slayer will take the Aldori Dueling Sword as his Exotic WP. Another question I pose to you smart folks, at lvl 6 the Slayer should qualify for either the Duelist prestige class or Aldori swordlord prestige class, is either one better than the other? Looking in terms of damage output and AC buff/incoming damage mitigation. Many thanks.
Quick question, since I am not entirely familiar with Aldori dueling sword- are you going for that since it can be 2 handed for 1.5x power attack?
Because if so, then sorry, slashing grace does not synch with any form of 2 handing (it requires 1 handed in 1 hand). Yes, it seems quite intentionally hard to use.
Aldori Dueling sword does allow you to skip the swashbuckler dip, since it can be finessed normally.
Anyway, for prestige classes. The swordlord is interesting since it is the only non agile weapon option for getting 1.5x power attack and dex to damage at the same time. Duelist has that scaling bonus equal to level to damage though....Sword lord seems stronger DPR early on, while duelist might be stronger towards the end of PFS (although the feat saved on not taking slashing grace might be worth something too).
Duelists have their parry and riposte ability, which can be great for defense. Also, it has canny defense, which can be used for a bit of extra AC. The Swordlord also has options, but they are more focused on the use of defensive options like combat expertise (and that generally gets an 'eeeeehhhhh.....' from these boards)
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Aldori Dueling sword does allow you to skip the swashbuckler dip, since it can be finessed normally.I'm assuming that's the reason. I believe it's the only weapon which can work with slashing grace to get dex to hit & damage sans the dip in swashbuckler or daring cavalier.
The whip works too, but that is not a sword.