Eldritch Scion 8 / Sacred Shield 3

[Elbedor]

This is a PFS build idea that I'd like to tighten up for play. I may or may not apply some GM credits to it in the near future in order to help get it off the ground. In the meantime though, I'd appreciate any help in trying to get this thing nice and tight.

Kitsune race

Male, Lawful Good

Paladin (Sacred Shield) 3
Magus (Eldritch Scion) 8

STR 09
DEX 17 +1 (lvl 8)
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 17 +1 (lvl 4)

Feats: Weapon Finesse, Dervish Dance, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Extra Arcane Pool, Improved Critical, (free spot; but considering Lunge for Reach or Agile Maneuvers and Spellcombat with a Truestrike Wand).

Traits: Magical Knack, Fate's Favored

Arcana: Arcane Accuracy, Wand Wielder

Skills: Some Diplomacy and/or Intimidate, a smattering of Knowledge skills, and enough UMD to use Wands.

Tactics are to SpellStrike with Shocking Grasp and/or Frostbite and Spellcombat either with spells or wands. Tripping casters is an option or sundering Spell component pouches after Truestriking through a wand or slot.

He is planned out to 11th level as he'll probably see very little play once he hits 12th. Order of progression is up in the air right now. Gear-wise, I'm only tracking a handful of things like weapons, armor, and such. A few basic things to consider:

+3 Scimitar
+2 Mithral chainshirt
Silver Smite Bracelet
+1 AC Ioun
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (for +2 AC goodness from trait)
Cloak of Resistance
Handy Haversack

So advice is not only welcome, but requested; anything you see that might need to change or be added to make him better.

[Elbedor]

Edit that. Not sure why I was thinking the Jingasa and Scion Bloodline power stacked. But they don't.

So replace Jingasa with Circlet of Persuasion.

[kestral287]

You don't have the requisite feats/traits to make either Shocking Grasp or Frostbite effective (Intensify or Rime Spell with one of the -1 Metamagic Level traits; here Wayang Spellhunter).

What are you trying to do with the build, exactly, that mandates using Eldritch Scion as an archetype and using Paladin at all? "Spell Combat and Spellstrike" isn't something you need a Paladin or a Scion for, just a basic Magus (or one with a much better archetype).

[Dread Knight]

Why are you going Sacred Shield when you can't use a shield when using Dervish Dance?

[kestral287]

Dread Knight wrote:

Why are you going Sacred Shield when you can't use a shield when using Dervish Dance?

First three levels of Sacred Shield have nothing that actually mandates the use of a shield. That kicks in at level 4.

[Elbedor]

kestral287 wrote:

Dread Knight wrote:

Why are you going Sacred Shield when you can't use a shield when using Dervish Dance?

First three levels of Sacred Shield have nothing that actually mandates the use of a shield. That kicks in at level 4.

Exactly. Pali levels never rise above 3. The key is to take front and utilize Smite on the BBEG to boost my AC (+6 with the right gear) and cut his damage output on allies by half.

The focus of the build is to shift the Magus stat to CHA, which then the Pali picks up and uses for Saves and multiple uses of a small healing effect/mercy. It pulls the build away from becoming too MAD and zeroes in on 2 primary stats DEX/CHA that are boosted by the race.

Regarding the lack of Intensified and Rime, that is something I could shuffle in. I don't want to lose either of the Traits I have now, so I'd have to go Additional Traits Feat and pick up Wayang Spellhunter and then shift a Feat out for Intensified (for burst damage) or Rime (for debuffing constant hit damage). I'd probably go Rime in order to help shut down the target, but I'd have to give up Greater Spell Penetration, Extra Arcane Pool, or Improved Crit to do it. All of those are painful choices, but if I had to pick GSP is the easiest to replace with a metamagic Piercing Rod on those occasions when I need to punch through SR. I could really use the Arcane Pool to maintain the Mystic Focus, and Improved Crit as a Feat means I don't need Keen, which keeps Bless Weapon viable as a wand option.

I could just drop Fate's Favored in place of Wayang, but that's +1 AC and +1 Saves all for 1 trait that I'd be losing...not to mention more if I'm in a party that drops a Prayer on the group.

[Elbedor]

Oh and one thing to remember, using meta-magic on a spell will push my casting time to 1 round (as this version of Magus is a spontaneous caster)...which means pre-casting Frostbite when possible and just making sure nobody touches me.

[kestral287]

Frankly, the extra saves aren't worth it.

If you want healing, you're a Cha caster with UMD on your class skills and Infernal Healing on your spells known. A simple wand covers that.

But one of two thing is going to happen:

1. You take your 3 levels (maybe just 2 for now) of Sacred Shield early, and suffer through the game because your offensive arm from the Magus is weak. Any DC from Rime Spell is 2-3 lower, your Shocking Grasps are 2-3 weaker. You also suffer through the first eight levels of Eldritch Scion, when they have to deal with the abomination that is having to pay for the class feature that defines the Magus, for virtually your entire PFS career.

2. You take your 3 levels of Sacred Shield late, and don't get the saves until after the huge majority of the times when they would have helped.

I honestly can't envision a realistic series of events in which you're not better off with Eldritch Scion 11-- or better yet 11 levels of a less-screwed-over archetype.

[Elbedor]

+6 to all my saves and immunity to all diseases and fear isn't worth a few level offset of Magus? I guess we build with different priorities in mind then.

Staying with 2 Pali loses me the fear, disease immunity, +1 BAB, and 1 use of Smite (if I have the Bracelet). In exchange for that I gain 1 caster level, 1 Arcana, and can boost my weapon an extra +1. Certainly doable, but I'm not 100% sold on that yet.

Regardless of which way I go, Rime doesn't suffer because it has no DC and Shocking Grasp doesn't suffer because it caps at 5d6. I'm not going to squeeze in a feat that requires me to sit there in melee for a whole round casting just to get that spell off. And I don't have room to squeeze in 2 feats to make sure I don't have to wait. Touching with a 5d6 SG wand and following up with Rimed Frostbite scimitar strikes will just have to do. ;)

Abandoning Pali all together gains me a Feat and frees up a Trait, but that's about it. My Bloodline powers don't get any better since I won't be playing at 12th level and I lose +6 to all my saves in addition to the AC boost and damage cutting power of the alternate Smite ability.

Plus I really have no interest in playing the standard, run-of-the-mill version of a Magus. So unless there is a better combo out there that fits nicely with the Kitsune race, I'll be using this general concept as my framework.

[kestral287]

Quite frankly, no it isn't. It gives you some really nice defenses... and gimps your offenses hard, and gimps your support abilities hard, and gimps everything you actually want to do as a Magus. For example: the Magus has an excellent array of 3rd level spells, such that 7th level is when most Magi start to shine for a lot of different reasons. You'll be getting Haste... level 9 or 10, probably? Even the Arcanist got it three levels before you did.

*Shrug* If you really want to run it, that's your prerogative. But Eldritch Scion is a pretty bad Magus archetype anyway, and you're going to need to think very, very hard about how you plan to order your levels. That's going to be your single largest concern-- do you lead Paladin or end with it?

Personally if I was running a Kitsune I'd look at a Swashbuckler or Sorcerer though.