Would like some opinions on a home game option.... Karma

[Scrogz]

In my home game we have always used some version of a hero point system. The mechanics have changed over the years and we have not really found the perfect fit for us.

I am starting a new game and taking another shot at this idea.

Karma is earned by heros for being heroic. It is also used as a minor reward for showing up for games, keeping your journal current, etc...

Typically, a hero earns 1 Karma point for showing up for the game and a second Karma point if they complete a journal entry for the game. Heros can always earn Karma for "being heroic" and completing quests/objectives in games. I am big on character development and backstory and give each character personal objectives to accomplish where they can also earm Karma. The amount of Karma earned for these tasks varies but would be something like 5 - 10 for significant accomplishments.

Here is where I would like some advice/feedback. I want to give heros the ability to save up Karma to buy permanent benefits for their characters but I would like some inout on the costs.

We try and play every week but probably get 30-40 weeks out of the year.
Heros earn 1 Karma for showning up and 1 Karma for journaling so looking at about 60-80 potential a year and maybe another 40 or so through other means.

Heros can use Karma in the following ways

Heros can spend a Karma to re-roll any roll and take the best result.
Heros can spend a Karma in advance of any roll to add +4 to that roll.

Those two are pretty standard. Here is the list of the "permanat" buff/things a character can buy with Karma. I'd like opinions on how much Karma they should cost...

Permanent Hitpoint up to the max/level: 15 Karma
+1 to any skill roll: 10 Karma
+1 to any save (only once per save): 20 Karma
New Feat: 25 Karma
Upgrade a feat to the Mythic version of a feat: 40 Karma
Make a skill a class skill: 40
Stat Point: 70 Karma (only once per stat)

What are some other options for characters to spend Karma on? How do the costs look?

REmember, this not not meant to be a defining champaign feature. Just a nice little reward.

[Frag Bait]

Gm re rolls takes worse result. If using random treasure how but re rolling the magic property.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Delay death by 1 round: 1 Karma (can be used for as long as you have Karma to spend)

Declare 1 d20 roll that's about to be made to be either a natural '20' or a natural '1:' 3 Karma

"Take back" an action after having seen the consequences: 5 Karma per round since the action was taken

[Scrogz]

I like the Delay death. Unsure of the natural 20. That seems pretty stout. I guess that is 6 Karma for a confirmed crit. Maybe that is not so bad

What do you think of the costs for permanent enhancements like feats and such? Too high, too low or just right?

[Oly]

I'd suggest Karma not always be automatically for Heroic acts, but those Acts of similar difficulty in line with alignment. Maybe you do it, but it would be a huge difference if you allow evil characters. If not, still, something like a LN character bringing a CG Robin Hood type to justice...you know what I mean.

Into rewards:

Automatic stabilization when not dead but below o hit points (per use, not permanent): 3 points.

Cheat death: Gain enough hp to bring your character back up to -1 hp on the turn he'd have outright died (one shot as above): 1 point per 2 hp restored, rounding up. Stablilization purchased separately.

Permanently gain an extra spell cast slot per day of a level you can currently cast: Level of spell slot * 5. Can only be used once per level, and never above Level 6.

Spontaneous caster gets a permanent extra spell known of a level they currently can cast: Level of spell slot * 10 (double casting slot because even stats can't increase those). Can only use once per level.

Use Karma after a roll (and after the result announcement) to add +4 to the roll: 3 points (triple what cost was before the player knows the roll failed; of course, the roll still could fail with the +4).

As opposed to the automatic natural 20, if +4 is added /before/ a roll, and raises it to 20 or above, the roll is treated as a natural 20 (most important on critical hit chances): 1 extra point in addition to the point used for the +4.

[Oly]

Scrogz wrote:

I like the Delay death. Unsure of the natural 20. That seems pretty stout. I guess that is 6 Karma for a confirmed crit. Maybe that is not so bad

What do you think of the costs for permanent enhancements like feats and such? Too high, too low or just right?

Skill roll: limit to 2 bonus points per skill and 8 totals in skill roll bonuses per character.

Stat gain, so valuable I'd have it cost 100 points, and in addition to 1 per stat, I'd say 2 stats enhanced per character.

[gamer-printer]

It sounds like you're talking about Hero Points - are you just looking at a different way of using that?

Rite Publishing's Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) has a Karma point system in place, though it works nothing like Hero points, nor what you are presenting above. You can earn positive or negative points of Karma based on acts you commit in life. Your accumulated Karma score determines where you go in reincarnation. My developed version of Karma works as the concept of karma is supposed to work, not as another name for Hero points (nor your idea), which is something completely different.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Oly wrote:

Stat gain, so valuable I'd have it cost 100 points, and in addition to 1 per stat, I'd say 2 stats enhanced per character.

I don't necessarily agree (although it should of course be quite expensive). Given that odd-numbered ability scores mean so little, I'd be inclined to say that this reward should be given in a +2 increment, then it would certainly be worth 100 points (and the catch is you'd have to have and spend those 100 points all at once - you can't pay 50 points for +1). 2 enhancements per character doesn't sound unreasonable, but neither does permitting one to potentially increase all 6, either.

[Oly]

I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:

Oly wrote:

Stat gain, so valuable I'd have it cost 100 points, and in addition to 1 per stat, I'd say 2 stats enhanced per character.

I don't necessarily agree (although it should of course be quite expensive). Given that odd-numbered ability scores mean so little, I'd be inclined to say that this reward should be given in a +2 increment, then it would certainly be worth 100 points (and the catch is you'd have to have and spend those 100 points all at once - you can't pay 50 points for +1). 2 enhancements per character doesn't sound unreasonable, but neither does permitting one to potentially increase all 6, either.

It's true that increases to odd numbered scores mean little, except thet you could gain +1 from karma points and +1 from a level gain, rather than needing to spend 2 level gain bonuses for it to get +2 (or maybe the character started with an odd number, either due to rolling or as I'll do on point buys and figure I'll pick up the even number on a level increase, given that the point buy system costs more for any even number than the preceding odd one).

[Scrogz]

I think I want to keep it at a single stat gain but it is a point well taken on the lack of value on odd stats...

Revised the list a bit and seperated into permanent and temporary gains. Still looking for input and additional suggestions.

Temporary Boons
- Automatic stabilization when not dead but below o hit points (per use, not permanent): 3 points.
- Cheat death: Gain enough hp to bring your character back up to -1 hp on the turn he'd have outright died (one shot as above): 1 point per 2 hp restored, rounding up. Stablilization purchased separately.
- +4 to any roll before the roll is made: 1
- +4 to any roll after the roll is made: 3

Permanent Gains:
- Permanent Hitpoint up to the max/level: 15 Karma
- +1 to any skill roll: 10 Karma (max 2/skill)
- +1 to any save (max 2/save): 20 Karma
- New Feat: 30 Karma
- Upgrade a feat to the Mythic version of a feat: 40 Karma
- Make a skill a class skill: 30
- Stat Point: 70 Karma

[commonlyquixotic]

Maybe for Stat Points, have a limit of 6/character, and no more than 2/Stat?

[Scrogz]

I've thought about how to limit stat points but I belive that a character will be hard pressed to every get enough Karma to buy 2 stat points for the duration of the campaign.

Figure they might get 80 in a year for showing up and journaling. Even if they get double that amount for in-game accomplishments (and that is more than I am planning on) that is still only enough for 2 stat points in a year and almost nothing else.

To some extent we are going to adjust as needed but I hear the concern.

[Lavawight]

I don't have the book at hand to quote, but you might check out the rules for Edge in the Shadowrun system. If they're getting 1 or 2 points per session, though, you might want to tone down the options or increase the point costs, as Edge is a precious and limited resource in SR.