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5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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Okay, so in trying to decide whether or not to buy the ACG: Origins book, I checked out d20pfsrd to see what was available. Specifically, the dervish swashbuckler archetype they mentioned from the book seemed like it would be perfect for my current swashbuckler to retrain into, and I wanted to see if it was going to be worthwhile.
I'm aware that d20pfsrd doesn't always name their stuff the same due to licensing issues, and thats fine for this talk, as I'm interested in figuring out if the mechanics are worthwhile for me, and those tend to be correct.
Here is part of the Merciful ability, as they have it listed:
Quote: While violence is sometimes necessary to cleanse evil, dervishes rarely revel in a foe's defeat. A whirling dervish does not gain any panache for dropping a foe below 0 hit points unless that foe is an evil outsider or undead, or if the damage she dealt was nonlethal. My question: how can you drop a foe below 0 hit points if the damage dealt is nonlethal?
I'd be using this for PFS, my current swashbuckler does Nonlethal frequently and just has dealt with the fact that he gets no panache for knocking his opponent out (since NL adds up until it equals the current hp of the creature, it doesn't reduce their hp to 0 ever, to my understanding). It seems that if I misunderstood and this Merciful ability is doable, then doing NL similarly with my current non-archetyped swashbuckler should also net me panache, and that would be very important to know.
Thanks!
Some note about nonlethal:
If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.
So, yes, you can put someone below 0, with nonlethal, it's just that, it's treated as lethal.
blackbloodtroll wrote: Some note about nonlethal:
If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.
So, yes, you can put someone below 0, with nonlethal, it's just that, it's treated as lethal.
So you're saying that the 'merciful' (and i stress the word there, as well as point you to the fluff provided in the ability as further explanation) ability is trying to say that you get panache only if you hit someone with so much nonlethal that you wrap them all the way around their maximum hp limit and into bleeding to death or dead category anyhow?
I suppose that works by RAW (if you argue that nonlethal damage treated as lethal damage is still nonlethal... which I would accept as reasonable), but that can't possibly be the intent here. Is there any RAW interpretation of this power that supports the intent? Or is this just a broken power of non-functioning? If the latter, we should probably start a thread in hopes to get it errata'd (or repost a better sounding question here) making sure to question the intent of both the archetype and non-archetype wordings of taking someone to below 0 with regards to nonlethal.
I think, they mean bringing them to 0, through nonlethal, and not below.
At least, that would seem to be the intent.
FAQ'd.
You don't bring them to 0 with nonlethal though, you bring them to their current hitpoints with nonlethal. Nonlethal counts up. I think both this and the original swashbuckler needs fixing if that was the intent.
Can anyone think of a good way to word a question for this that would be usable for the FAQ for the Swashbuckler (and Dervish archetype)?
something like that maybe?
:
Quote: While violence is sometimes necessary to cleanse evil, dervishes rarely revel in a foe's defeat. A whirling dervish does not gain any panache for dropping a foe below 0 hit points unless that foe is an evil outsider or undead, or if the damage she dealt was nonlethal. is the intent of the above ability being:
gain a panache point when you kill an undead and an evil outsider.
gain a panache point when you inflict enough non-lethal damage to drop someone unconsious
you don't get panache for killing a non-undead non-evil outsider.
?
or is it as written: bring someone to the negatives by doing non-lethal above his maximum HP, and then again above his normal HP once more (so that he actually gets to negative HP) ?
i'm pretty sure that the writter just messed up here in his way of wording the ability, and the intent is really to just knock them unconcious.
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15 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
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"gain a panache point when you inflict enough non-lethal damage to drop someone unconsious"... that's good. Let's try this:
QUESTION: Does a Swashbuckler gain a point of panache when dropping someone unconscious with nonlethal damage? What about a Swashbuckler with the Whirling Dervish archetype who has the Merciful ability?
Good to see people FAQ'ing this. Just a reminder, please FAQ the post just above this one, rather than the first post of the thread. Thanks!
I suspect that the intention was to simply have it worn when the target's nonlethal damage exceeds it's current hit points, incapacitating it.
That's my guess too, but of course that's not horribly useful for PFS. Moreso, it then indicates that this was also the intention for the normal swashbuckler... which would be fabulous for my NL-dealing character, but would be something that would need to be said from on-high I think.
Yeah, the intent seems pretty clear here.
Do you think that is the intent of the original Swashbuckler's panache ability too? Given the similar wording, I'd guess so... but it's also a possibility that it was only intended for Merciful swashbucklers to benefit from such a KO.
Still collecting FAQ votes, and looking for opinions as to whether or not the standard swashbuckler is also supposed to get panache for knocking someone out with nonlethal damage.
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