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This has some class featured inspired by some cherry-picked ideas generated in this thread and this one.
If the +1 bonus in training routine doesn't follow any of the rules for enhancement bonuses, then it probably shouldn't be an enhancement bonus.
It does follow the rules for enhancement bonuses (I think it does anyway), except that it is not magical. I didn't want it to stack with other enhancement bonuses. I'll do some research on enhancement bonuses though.
Thanks for the feedback.
The bonus is enhancement so that it doesn't stack with normal magic bonuses. I know what I am trying to do, but obviously since you both agree I must be dropping the ball somehow. I looked up enhancement bonuses, and nothing indicates that they have to be magical. It's just that they always have been until now. I could actually removed those sentences about magic completely.
Combat repertoire should not be a down grade from bonus feats. The fighter ends up with literally loads of feats. He is just limited in how many he can use at once. Think of it like a spell book. Could you read the class feature again and maybe help me figure out what I didn't explain correctly?
Your suggestion for Talent is interesting. My original intent was to have a very simple class feature, and not necessarily a strong one. Do you think that making it more complex would add to the quality?
Why does the spell not grant that ability? Does it have to do with permanent vs temporary bonuses?
Overall, it looks like a good rewrite.
Smoke and mirrors, my good man. It's just the fancy PDF and formatting. ;)
Why does the spell not grant that ability? Does it have to do with permanent vs temporary bonuses?
I'm guessing because people were using that spell to bypass DR rather than using it for its intended purpose (making your weapons do more damage).
I have been writing house rules for the Fighter class for 10 years.
Here is what we have come up with:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2j0NJiWLFEwWDd4TGMtUkt6cTQ/view
Also, Aelyrinth has got a broad and thorough understanding of the Fighter class, worth checking out his posts.
Oh i see, you are familiar with Aelyrinth's concepts.
From my experience, having house rules that can be easily integrated into core rules is high on the priority list. Saves a lot of work.
I know Pathfinder Unchained will have an option for martial characters to increase their potency. Very keen to see the designers take on the Fighter fix
Check out the paladin's enhancement bonus, Ciaran. It's an enhancement bonus that stacks with actual magic bonuses up to +5 (So 5/6 of the paladin's own bonus is added to the actual magic one.)
You could make it stack if you want.
Cyrad
I'm looking at the spell and it is pretty damn clear. Was there an errata, or were people simply not reading that sentance in the spell description?
Morzadian
Thats a nice looking doc. For the monk technique, it seems redundant to throw in Improved Unarmed Strike. Also, since the feint technique is the one with the fewest feats, you should throw in Combat Expertise.
Gulian
I could make it stack, but chose not to. It is a bit of a nod towards one of Aelyrinth's concepts. Also, since I want the ability to be nearly constant (the duration is one day), I thought stacking would be too much.
Cyrad
I'm looking at the spell and it is pretty damn clear. Was there an errata, or were people simply not reading that sentance in the spell description?
That's a possibility. It may also be that people assumed it worked like in 3.5e, which didn't have that line. However, 3.5e's greater magic weapon didn't have that line because Pathfinder introduced the ability to bypass DR with sufficiently powerful magical enhancements.
Greater Magic Weapon doesn't stack with magical weapons because if it did, there's no reason for a caster to ever get a better magical weapon. They'd buy a +1, throw GMW on it, and only take secondary things on the race to a +14 weapon.
i.e. exactly like 3.5 did.
With non-stacking, there's a very good reason to have that +5 for punching DR. Granted, there are things you can use to penetrate cold iron/silver, adamantine, and alignments, but they aren't as convenient or reliable as just having a +5 weapon.
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Points on the build:
You might just want to make the Dex bonus to Armor Training a flat dodge bonus. Freedom from the tyranny of stats! That way, the fighter ALWAYS get his AC bonus, even if his Dex is 12. you know, like a monk does.
You probably want to include DR in his armor training, and make the capstone of Armor Training level 19 like it should be, instead of 15th. Also, have that DR stack with the DR from armor and from feats...but not from other classes.
You can have the enhancement bonus spread between armor and shield, and two weapons?
You need to rewrite Talent to note that you get additional Talents every four levels. Then you need to indicate whether those Talents start at +1 (like weapon training) when first acquired, or at the same bonus as all the other talents.
I personally loathe the idea of decreasing weapon training bonuses. I suggest Primary Weapon Training, and 3x Secondary Weapon Training. Furthermore, I suggest the ability to use FC bonuses or skill points to add a weapon to the Primary Weapon group.
I will note that giving the fighter a pool of 21 feats and access to only half of them may sound nice...but it's still just more combat feats, and he can't really change them on the spur of the moment to what's needed. The power in combat feats is proven by the brawler...having a bunch, and then the ones you need at any given moment.
There's also no extra non-combat feats. 5 talents isn't going to cover that lack.
I will note that I did a build for a fighter that granted two feats that were stronger then normal at every level, and the fighter was still coming up at par. You may want to add a whole second list of training feats that are non-combat to encourage a fighter in non-magical extra training.
My 2p.
I suggest you write out what you want your fighter to be capable of, and to do. Then see if the build satisfies what you want to have happen.
==Aelryinth
Oly
I will think about it. At this point I still see merit in keeping it simple.
Aelryinth
Thank you for looking everything over.
Concerning armor training, what you suggest is almost identical to what I used in an earlier draft. I like that it simulates increasing max dex, and that it improves touch AC. I guess I'm hung up on the word "dodge". If anything dodging should be easier when not wearing armor. Also, I wanted to leave some of the class features untouched. We'll see. Lowering ACP and increasing AC is effective though.
Yes, the enhancement bonus can be spread about however you like - one weapon or armor, multiple weapons if you like - once you are higher level. I know its not 100% clear yet. Do you have a suggestion on wording? Oh yeah, that class feature was inspired by your thread.
At this point in time, Talent is something you pick once and the bonus improves. It does not give extra talents. It is meant to be a small bonus.
The decreasing weapon training bonus isn't doing much to encourage the fighter using different weapons, which is what I thought the intent was. I suppose it wouldn't be hard to keep the bonus always the same, but just add another group. It would make a heartier class feature for sure.
I don't have issue with the fighter not being able to grab feats on the fly. I think changing some once a day is fine.
The latest version of Training Routine does include some fighter-friendly non-combat feats. I haven't uploaded it yet.
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consider 30 'repertoire' feats over 20 levels
one bonus at odd levels
two bonus at even levels (starting at 4th level though)
looks like:
01: rep2 (1 active)
02: rep3
03: rep4 (2 active)
04: rep6 (3 active)
05: rep7
06: rep9 (4 active)
07: rep10 (5 active)
08: rep12 (6 active)
09: rep13
10: rep15 (7 active)
11: rep16 (8 active)
12: rep18 (9 active)
13: rep19
14: rep21 (10 active)
15: rep22 (11 active)
16: rep24 (12 active)
17: rep25
18: rep27 (13 active)
19: rep28 (14 active)
20: rep30 (15 active)
note that this creates 'slow levels' 2/5/8/13/17 - these could be your retrain levels!
also, training 1hr should allow activating any rep feats, not just one
With the ability to swap a repertoire feat every other level, I don't think having 20 feats vs 30 feats is going to make a huge difference. Its just more bookkeeping IMHO. I will take your advice and change how many feats can be retrained with practicing for 1 hour. Perhaps you remember the "fighter spellbook" discussion we had in a thread a year ago. If the wizard can swap out every spell in one hour's time, so should this fighter.
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i totally disagree with your first remark.
that's tantamount to exclaiming that additional spells in a wizard's book won't help that much!
nay, it'll allow space for non-essential corner-case fun-feats.
not to be hostile. just a strong disagreement Ciaran. obviously it's your homebrew - just throwin you ideas and opinions.
And I appreciate your ideas and opinions.
I did write a general feat that allows a fighter to add two combat feats to his reperrtoire. Doing so would (obviously) add 2 to his "feats known" and 1 to his "feats per day". I kept it out of the doc though.
Creating sample builds will help acknowledge static bonuses.
Weapon Specialization and Greater Weapon Specialization provide static bonuses and not extra book keeping.
Does a Fighter need to imitate the mechanics of the Wizard (swapping spells/swapping feats) to stay competitive?
Or does the Fighter need a unique class ability that helps him (or her) adapt to different combat situations.
The personal issue I have with swapping feats is that it is a non-associated mechanic, If a Fighter is an expert grappler, he can grapple at 6 a.m in the morning, or 9 p.m at night, never loses the ability.
Although if swapping feats helps you create a Fighter fix, fast and efficiently I don't see there is a problem in doing so.
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if you play that situation out single-classed (not to mention dip-stealing!), what you have is a strangely uneven progression. 4 'new' feats every odd level to 1 'new' feat every even level. weird!
here is how I am doing 'wild' feats: weapon training (modified). i think it's strongest talking point is that it a low-impact change with high versatility return. in theory.
Morzadian
Does the fighter need to imitate the wizard? No. However, if I create a fundamentaly new mechanic, I might as well call it something other than fighter. I kind of like the CRB fighter the way he is: simple, and every ability in constant. However, I think a little more versatility would be more fun for the player. With a by-the-book fighter, I imagine him training every day he can, and RPing that doesn't accomplish anything. At least a prepared spellcaster can spend an hour in the morning and have a new bag of toys. What if the fighter trains every morning and loses a trick simply because he didn't practice it today?
There are loads of movies out there where the hero - usually during some background time or a montage - goes outside and practices. He's had a sword up until now, but he pulls out a bow and stays up half the night practicing. Or, he suddenly is wielding two-swords expectly. When the big battle happens the next day, he's ready and has a trick you haven't seen before.
Is it realistic that the hero had a special move but then forgets how to do it for a couple days? No, not really, but this a game after all. By the same logic, its not very realistic that a wizard can cast a spell every day and then not be able one day because he read a different page in his spellbook.
A mechanic like what the brawler has can duplicate the movie example (above) pretty well, and it honestly looks like a fun mechanic. I'm trying something of my own creation.
rainzax
Yeh... There's reason to not include that feat, as you demonstrated, but it would kind of accomplish your progression at the cost of non-combat feats.
Think of it less as a trick then 'mental focus'. He's simply not going to use that 'trick' because he's committed himself to employing this other set of tricks he doesn't normally pull out.
There's three levels of 'knowing feats' you can use.
The permanent Feats, lets call them Techniques. You can only retrain them by changing levels, they never go away, permanent. These should be design be the strongest feats and determine how the fighter actually sees himself. These are the skills he never gives up.
The Preparation Feats: These are the ones you change at the beginning of the day. It's a mental focus thing, you know the enemy you are going to face, and are doing your best to prep for him. These are how the fighter adapts to changing foes he can predict ahead of time.
The Inspiration Feats: You need to use this trick, you need it RIGHT NOW. You only keep the active use of it for a very short time, but it's there when you need it. This is how the fighter responds to emergencies and desperate situations.
====The combination of the three styles is true combat versatility. Permanent, preparation, spontaneous.
I'll also have you note that increasing your Dex in armor is increasing your ability to dodge in armor. A dex bonus is, for all purposes in the game, the exact same thing as a Dodge bonus, except it requires a stat.
Turning it from a Dex bonus to a Dodge bonus just MAKES CERTAIN he gets the AC bonus. If he wants the Dex to skills and init and weapon finesse, he still needs to raise his Dex. Punishing a light armor fighter because he doesn't have the 28 Dex to max out his Dex bonus in armor at level 4 makes no sense. Just give him a point of AC and call it done.
Also, it stacks with his Dex bonus, and now the fighter gets the same dex bonus in armor as everyone else...which, with Mithral and Celestial, can accommodate a Dex up to 24 in full plate, if need be.
i.e. there's no NEED to call it a Dex bonus. Just give him the AC and he'll still want to raise his Dex because it stacks, and he'll pursue mithral or celestial armor for the same reason.
Freedom from the tyranny of stats. The increasing Dex in Armor is one of the most biased of Fighter class abilities, a subtle discrimination that needs to be done away with.
===Aelryinth
Aelryinth
That's very ambitious, and I look forward to seeing your fighter rewrite someday, as do many others. For myself, I will choose a less ambitious path that does not rewrite feats.
Increasing the max dex bonus is an attempt at realism in the class feature, and we all know realism is a tricky path in an rpg. As if last night, My current draft simply calls it a bonus to AC.
all of these 3 types of feats at 1st level?
No. At least, I wouldn't. That's way too nice for dipping.
Techniques I'd start at level 1. I'd only give them a Training Technique if they have no magical ability whatsoever.
The other two kinds of feats I'd start at level 3, as part of the revised Bravery mechanic - Inspiration and Versatility. That also makes them annoyingly hard to get to for dippers looking for feats.
The key to feats for fighters is to treat them exactly like spells. They are a whole class feature in and of themselves that are unrelated to the rest of the class.
==Aelryinth
I agree with feats = spells in principle, but then again spells are single use. A warrior can power attack for as long as he has hit points, multiple times in a single round even.
Being able to attack's usefulness ends when you don't have something to attack. If it's all you can do, then you go from 'neccessary' to 'useless' and back and forth.
The idea of out of combat ability is to even out the highs and lows.
a good spellcaster will not run out of spells in a fight. Also, they can 'store up' spells...you can't store up Power Attack, only use it on the instant. So the analogy falls down as soon as the fighting ends. The spellcaster can now find even more circumstances to use spells, but the Power Attacker can only look for doors to bash down.
==Aelryinth
What is the value of spells compared to feats?
For one combat, a Shield spell provides a Wizard with a tower shield (+4 AC), which has no penalty to hit, no arcane spell failure, no armor check penalties, cannot be sundered and allows both hands to be free.
While a Fighter has the Shield Focus feat that gives him +1 AC for all combats.
Now if the Shield spell was a feat, which one would you choose?
Morzadian
Does the fighter need to imitate the wizard? No. However, if I create a fundamentaly new mechanic, I might as well call it something other than fighter. I kind of like the CRB fighter the way he is: simple, and every ability in constant. However, I think a little more versatility would be more fun for the player. With a by-the-book fighter, I imagine him training every day he can, and RPing that doesn't accomplish anything. At least a prepared spellcaster can spend an hour in the morning and have a new bag of toys. What if the fighter trains every morning and loses a trick simply because he didn't practice it today?There are loads of movies out there where the hero - usually during some background time or a montage - goes outside and practices. He's had a sword up until now, but he pulls out a bow and stays up half the night practicing. Or, he suddenly is wielding two-swords expectly. When the big battle happens the next day, he's ready and has a trick you haven't seen before.
Is it realistic that the hero had a special move but then forgets how to do it for a couple days? No, not really, but this a game after all. By the same logic, its not very realistic that a wizard can cast a spell every day and then not be able one day because he read a different page in his spellbook.
A mechanic like what the brawler has can duplicate the movie example (above) pretty well, and it honestly looks like a fun mechanic. I'm trying something of my own creation.
rainzax
Yeh... There's reason to not include that feat, as you demonstrated, but it would kind of accomplish your progression at the cost of non-combat feats.
I was thinking of attachments to feats.
In a similar vein to the Anticipate Dodge feat, a Fighter can do something a little bit extra with his feats. The feat could expand to offer different options. If the fighter knew he was going to battle a few fast and experienced rogues, he could prepare a get a intermediate action dagger attack through his Quickdraw feat.
It's so much work though.
Similar idea that Aelryrinth is exploring with his concept: the Fighter is Olympic class.
From what I hear, Jason Buhlman is going to do a similar thing and give martial characters the ability to go Nova and it is going to be linked through feats (Pathfinder Unchained).
I would like the fighter (and some other classes) to end up super-human instead if supernatural. One concept I couldn't complete was to have have super-human abilities begin at 4th level, which is where some classes get spells, or better spells, ki pool, etc. I fiddled with it in an early draft but couldn't complete anything I was happy with. What I started on though (without going into detail) was auras that scale up. I had a hard time deciding on auras that still made the fighter feel like a fighter, instead of another class.
So A
What is it you suggest the fighter could be doing when the battle is done?
Ciaran, I agree, it's really hard. Having Fighter 'skills' would be a good addition. Strength only has 2 related skills. However, introducing them into the game is a massive rewrite.
I really like the Superhuman idea. I was hoping the D&D 5e Fighter would of introduced an innovative Fighter fix, sadly not the case.
I'm playing a Fighter character in a campaign, which has house rules that I helped co-write.
The consolidated feats (that I posted earlier) is included in the game and has been a massive boon for my character.
Also my Fighter was the only character that received two hirelings (1st level, warrior and a scholar) and access to the Leadership feat. Providing my character with OoC utility. Plenty of roleplaying opportunities too, heaps of fun.
I know, it's not perfect but it creates some kind of balance against spell-caster NPC resources like the Druid's animal companion and Summon Monster spells.
There is a Leadership trait that could be added to the Fighter class.
We also have jettisoned Wands with 50 charges into space, into deep space. Only eternal wands (2/day) and eternal staffs (5/day) exist in our campaign.
Ranged touch attack and melee touch attack are DC saves.
3/4 Character HD saves, +2 good saves. Aelyrinth and Rainzax have proposed something similar.
And the GM puts pressure on the party, 4-6 encounters before rest and many unexpected encounters. This keeps spell-casters resource based characters, and the swing-my-sword-all-day Fighter gets to shine in the way he was meant to.
IMO, house ruling spell-casters contributes to the Fighter fix.
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re: skills
i have found that repurposing Climb into Athletics has an incredible ratio of low system-impact to high martial-boost. akin to say, replacing worn spark plugs in your engine.
Swim is still separate, and Athletics is basically a ST-based Acrobatics.
overlap:
Both Acrobatics and Athletics: used for climbing, avoiding AoO's provoked through movement, jumping, softening a fall
differences:
Acrobatics: keeping balance
Athletics: sprinting (keeping top speed after CON rounds - see running in CRB)
re: skills
i have found that repurposing Climb into Athletics has an incredible ratio of low system-impact to high martial-boost. akin to say, replacing worn spark plugs in your engine.
Swim is still separate, and Athletics is basically a ST-based Acrobatics.
overlap:
Both Acrobatics and Athletics: used for climbing, avoiding AoO's provoked through movement, jumping, softening a falldifferences:
Acrobatics: keeping balance
Athletics: sprinting (keeping top speed after CON rounds - see running in CRB)
Very good, as always, one step ahead of everyone else.
Out of Combat for the fighter:
Training people. The fighter trains, he should be able to train others.
He should be self-training. Ergo, bonuses on training from the Ultimate Guide. Class ability to train up others.
Leadership. Dovetails with training others. Not only does the fighter have the option of getting followers (If he and the GM agree it's okay!), but he can train them up, so his followers are better then everyone else's.
Crafting. I'm aware there's a rewrite of the crafting rules out there, but Fighters should be able to craft/smith in their down time. And this crafting should be both useful and necessary.
A 'quick fix' for crafting consists of two things: A nerf to Fabricate and a boost to masterwork that ties in with magic items.
1) Fabricate replaces one day of crafting labor when cast. That's IT. The requisite tools and raw materials must be present for the casting of the spell. Otherwise, use Minor/Major Creation.
Fabricated items are basically identical and non-artistic. Any crafter can identify a Fabricated item with a DC 10 skill check. If you like, it's because they are all based on the ultimate item in Adabar's Vault, so there's no individuality to them.
2)Word of God is you can make Masterwork items with Fabricate. Fine. However, the item is always of exactly DC20 craftsmanship, and can't hold more then a single cantrip, or a +1 enchantment, and can't be upgraded. The spark of creativity of a Craftsman has to invest the item to make true magic.
3) Introduce a new tier of Masterwork Items based on Crafting DC. This is a pure skill check, so bonuses aside from ranks, stat modifier and feats are not included (things like morale, competence, aid another and such are SPEED bonuses...they help you create faster, not better).
DC 20 Masterwork items are the bare least that can hold magic. Most 'low magic' (shoes that tie themselves, candles that light on command, etc) are like this. They only ever have one minor ability.
DC 21 can hold a single level 1 spell, or multiple cantrips.
DC 22 can hold a level 1 spell + cantrips, or a +1 Enhancement, +1 extra enhancement.
DC 23 Can hold any number of level 1 spells, or multiple +1 Enhancements.
DC 24 can reach +2, with multiple +1 attachments, or a single level 2 spell with no extras.
DC 25 Can reach +2, with a single +2 attachment, or a level 2 spell with level 1 extras.
DC 26 can reach +2 with any number of +2 attachments, or any number of +2 spells.
Etc keep going.
By removing temporary, spell induced bonuses you bring the Masterwork component back under control. A player can't make up a +10 competence Ring and be better at a Crafting skill...he'll just be FASTER.
THEN, you make the Masterwork component contribute towards the 'gold needed to make a magic item.'
The VALUE of a Masterwork item for making magic items is 100 gp per point above 20, cumulative.
So, DC 21 is +100
DC 23 is 100+200+300 = 600.
DC 30 is 5500 gp.
What does this do? It lets the Crafters make money off the magic item makers. Because if you need a 1000 gp sword to enchant, the Crafter only spends 335 gp of his own money for this, but you need a crafter who can take 10 with a +14 on his Masterwork check, exclusive of tools and helpers and magic items. Profit! You're actually paying him for his SKILL.
Furthermore, you REQUIRE high craftsmanship for decent gear. The fighter's ability to be an excellent craftsman in down time becomes useful, and the DM has the option of either having the characters chase down legendary craftsmen with +25 in Ringmaking to make their +5 rings of Protection, or making it available for a price that becomes part of the 'raw cost' of making a magic item.
The contrast here is: You don't need high craft gear to make magic items: There's no reward for high ranks vs high bonuses to Craft checks; magic is unbeatably faster/better at making normal items; ONE SPELL and any number of headbands replaces Crafting at levels 9+.
IF excellent Craftsmanship becomes part of the process of making great magic items, I think we've got a win.
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On Athletics/Acrobatics:
I'd would make the 'folding in' of Climb, Swim and Acrobatics part of a feat or Technique, and leave it the same for everyone else. It would just be simpler...and another benefit for the fighter. You might want to make it available to the Rogue as a Talent, too.
Skill Affinity Technique - Athletics (Fighter)
Your Climb, Swim and Acrobatic Ranks stack up to your Fighter level, and are considered one skill. You must still have at least one Rank in each skill for this to happen.
You gain a +2 on all Athletics Checks, +4 at level 10, and +6 at level 15 and +8 at level 20.
If you have no magical ability, you may use Strength, Dexterity or Constitution to modify your Athletics checks, as you prefer.
==Aelryinth
Rainzax:
I like your concept of Athletics and devising new strength-based uses for it. However, I would decrease the overlap between Athletics and Acrobatics. And I might include Swim.
A:
Regarding training other, I rarely make or even think archetypes, but I did devise one for my current class where the fighter gives up some of his on-the-spot versatility to grant some of his abilities to his party members. When he practices in the morning, they join in and gain some physical or equipment bonuses.
Regarding leadership, I want to be careful to not make him too much like the 3.5 marshall or 4e warlord. But, still... something in this realm.
Regarding crafting, I wouldn't include it as part of the fighter class, because anyone can craft items. However, I do agree that there should be higher levels of masterwork without the use of the master craftsman feat.
Thanks for the feedback.
The bonus is enhancement so that it doesn't stack with normal magic bonuses. I know what I am trying to do, but obviously since you both agree I must be dropping the ball somehow. I looked up enhancement bonuses, and nothing indicates that they have to be magical. It's just that they always have been until now. I could actually removed those sentences about magic completely.
Okay, I know you guys are way past this now, but I just have to.
Masterwork weapons have an Enhancement bonus to attack, that is non-magical. Ever since D&D 3.0.
-Cheers
Correct, Path, but it doesn't stack with magical enhancement bonuses, either.
==Aelryinth
The masterwork bonus was part of the inspiration for that, and an idea of Aelryinth's was the other.
Rainzax:
I like your concept of Athletics and devising new strength-based uses for it. However, I would decrease the overlap between Athletics and Acrobatics. And I might include Swim.A:
Regarding training other, I rarely make or even think archetypes, but I did devise one for my current class where the fighter gives up some of his on-the-spot versatility to grant some of his abilities to his party members. When he practices in the morning, they join in and gain some physical or equipment bonuses.Regarding leadership, I want to be careful to not make him too much like the 3.5 marshall or 4e warlord. But, still... something in this realm.
Regarding crafting, I wouldn't include it as part of the fighter class, because anyone can craft items. However, I do agree that there should be higher levels of masterwork without the use of the master craftsman feat.
The training bonuses the fighter gave were the 'permanent' ones from the UC guide...more hit points, retraining skills, etc.
I gave him the ability to train commoners to warriors or experts, warriors to fighters, and experts to Rogues, too.Then he could train NPC's up to a max level of his level/3...+ whatever level they are over first (i.e. if his Leadership score said he had some level 3 followers, if he was 9th level he could train them up to 5th).
So, Leadership got a CAPSTONE. At level 18, he can train his level 1 followers to a max of 6th level. His number of followers doubled (including having two cohorts). And followers of his followers are treated as his followers for bonus effects.
IN short, he could easily have a massive following if he so desired.
The bonus buff was a simple Aura, that gave a bonus on offense or defense against a particular foe for the day...a morale bonus that didn't stack with FE bonuses. It was small but large area...and +1 bigger for his personal followers.
So if he was leading his personal troops, their loyalty pays off in a bigger bonus to them, i.e. he has better followers then other classes.
It's not as good or powerful as bardsong...but it's constant, large area and can affect a lot of people. I thought it suitable.
I didn't want to make him a big PC buffer, and certainly not 'give up' something so he could buff others. A constant bonus against a chosen foe he knows how to fight shows leadership. Make it bigger for his personal followers encourages getting followers, and has non-dungeon viability.
And the fighter's followers make great low level PC's to play, too!
==Aelryinth
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I made some changes to my Training Routine feature. The more I added, the clunkier the language got (which is tough because I really prefer class feature that are short and sweet. I was finally able to reorganize the vital bits and trim down redundant language.
Training Routine (Ex): Once per day, beginning at 2nd level, a fighter can spend one hour in training to grant one creature - either himself or an ally who trains under his direction - the benefit of the training type he selects (see below) until the next day. A creature cannot gain the benefits of a training type more than once in the same day.
At 6th level and every four levels thereafter, a fighter's training can affect one additional creature. The entire group must engage in the same training type, but each participant can choose a different benefit.
Physical Training: The fighter gains the benefit of one of the following feats: Acrobatic, Athletic, Endurance, Fleet, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Run, or Toughness. His allies gains the benefit of one of the following feats: Acrobatic, Athletic, Endurance, Fleet, or Run.
Proficiency Training: The fighter gains the benefit of Exotic Weapon Proficiency or Improved Unarmed Strike. His allies gains the benefit of one of the following feats it qualifies for: Armor Proficiency (any), Improved Unarmed Strike, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, or Simple Weapon Proficiency.
Equipment Training: A weapon, armor, or shield the fighter or his ally trains with gains a +1 enhancement bonus while it is in his possession. At 6th levels and every four levels thereafter, the fighter's enhancement bonus increases by +1. His allies' enhancement bonuses improves at 8th level and every four levels thereafter. The bonus can be added to a single item or split it up amongst multiple.
If desired, a weapon, armor, or shield's enhancement bonus can be used to add properties to it. The following properties can be added to weapons: bane, defending, distance, ghost touch, keen, mighty cleaving, returning, seeking, speed, throwing, or wounding. The following properties can be added to armor and shields: arrow catching, arrow deflection, bashing, fortification, or invulnerability. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the item already has, but duplicates do not stack. At least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added.
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re: Athletics
one route is to rewrite feats. no doubt. I suppose I narrowed the essential goal to this: make 'athletics' more accessible. without opening the can of skill-consolidation worms (because, once you start, where do you stop? Swim? Escape Artist?). To me, re-purposing climbing into both Athletics and Acrobatics, and having tremendous overlap between them, achieves the following three things with minimal system conversion:
1) keeps the skill system 99% intact
2) frees up skill points for both ST and DX characters
3) gives high-ST characters a degree of mobility (think football)
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re: Leadership
gotta say I disagree with the concept that only the fighter should get Leadership. I mean, I know the class has it rough, what with it's awful saves, pitiful skill points, and total dependence on mostly non-scaling combat feats, but, I think it's overboard to say that as a reparation that the Leadership is made only available to the class. Better, yes, monopoly, no.
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re: Enhancement
so the Fighter can, as an extraordinary ability, teach me how to throw my dagger like a boomerang? This is kind of silly folks. C'mon admit it. It looks like you are resorting to a class rewrite to solve a game design issue. I say, tackle that problem at the root of it, eh?
sorry to be a hater! most of the time I like your stuff Ciaran...
Maybe some of the enhancements are bad choices for a non-magical class. :)
I've never personally said Fighters should have a MONOPOLY on Leadership.
But they should automatically have the right to take it, without cost, and get more out of it then any other class. It should be a class feature, like a bonded mount, familiar, animal companion, or eidolon...all of which the PC can also choose not to use.
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I don't like your training mechanic, Ciaran. One, it's too limited in who it affects, and two, it's too limited in the benefits it grants.
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Adding Enhancements: Bane should not be on the list unless you really, really want it there. Bane is by far the most powerful of the +1 Enhancements.
I'm not a fan of adding non-bonus enhancements to weapons for the fighter. Screams too magical to me. If he can add Returning, why can't he add Flaming, etc. It's also more the Magus' and paladin's shtick.
Increasing the virtual bonus by his weapon training to offset DR is fine and makes sense. If he wants to make a change to his weapon, giving him the ability to Name the weapon and grow it organically over time makes more sense.
but changing the magical powers of it by the day? Ugh. Ditto the armor. Straight add-on, yes (instead of the Dex/dodge bonus-?). Maybe as a permanent choice for his armor, INSTEAD of the enhancement? I.e. any magic armor he puts on has fortification? That would be kinda cool. Any magic longsword is Keen, etc.
But I draw a line at swapping magic powers on his gear by the day. Doesn't feel right. Swapping feats is swapping mental focus of previous training, I can swing that. Changing the very nature of a magic item, not so much.
==Aelryinth
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For all you people who want to be able to pick and choose from a variety of weapon enhancements;
Versatile
Price +1 bonus + 1-4 bonus + special
Aura moderate evocation; CL 6th to 15th+; Weight —
DESCRIPTION
A Versatile Weapon is capable of altering the lesser alternate enhancements on a weapon.
When made, a Versatile Weapon assigns a pool +1 to +4 of enhancement bonuses to Versatile (making the true cost of Versatile +2 to +5). This range of enhancements may be altered once every minute as a move action by the wielder of the weapon.
A +1 Enhancement costs 1000 gp to assign into Versatile.
A +2 Enhancement costs 4000 GP to assign into Versatile.
A +3 Enhancement costs 9000 GP to assign into Versatile.
A +4 Enhancement costs 16000 GP to assign into Versatile.
There is no limit to the number of lesser enhancements that may become part of Versatile. Versatile does not, however, include straight numeric enhancements.
Effects that have various subeffects, such as Bane Weapon, require separate assignments for each sub effect (i.e. Bane (elves) and Bane (orcs) requires 2 separate assignments).
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Mnemonic Enhancer, + Special by assigned powers; Cost +1 bonus + +1-4 + Individual costs.
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Note this means you start with the equal of a +3 blade for alternate +1 powers.
But it also finally gives melees some of the combat flexibility that paladins, magic, soulknives and spellcasters enjoy.
A +5, Versatile+4 Weapon would be a +10 weapon that would be extremely flexible, depending on which additional powers it was assigned.
==Aelryinth
Obviously, Aelryinth, my ambitions for the fighter are not as high as yours. Thats OK. Its funny thing though, is that your critique is actually pushing my ideas back towards their infant stage. My class features tend to start nice and simple, then get bloated, and then people who offer imput bring them back down to earth (but to a different place on earth).
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Training Routine (Ex): Once per day, beginning at 2nd level, a fighter can spend one hour in training to grant one creature - either himself or an ally who trains under his direction - the benefit of the training type he selects until the next day. A creature cannot gain the benefits of a training type more than once in the same day. At 4th level and every two levels thereafter, a fighter's training can affect one additional creature. The entire group must engage in the same training type.
Physical Training: The fighter chooses Consitution, Dexterity, or Strength. A participant in this training gains a +1 enhancement bonus to that ability score. At 6th levels and every four levels thereafter, the enhancement bonus increases by +1. (too much?)
Combat Training: If the fighter participates in this training, he gains the benefit of a combat feat he qualifies for. An ally who participates in this training gains the benefit of a combat she qualifies for that the fighter possesses.
Equipment Training: A weapon, armor, or shield the fighter or his ally trains with gains a +1 enhancement bonus while it is in his possession. At 6th levels and every four levels thereafter, the enhancement bonus increases by +1.