Weapon Training (alternate)


Homebrew and House Rules

Verdant Wheel

a way to leave bonus feats as-is and still give the fighter some daily feat retraining!
also, bumped to 1st level, plus created the "paired" weapon group.

Weapon Training (alternate):

Spoiler:

Once per day after a full nights rest and 10 minutes of practice, a 1st level fighter may choose one weapon group (see below) and one combat feat he currently meets all prerequisites for. The fighter may use that feat while wielding a weapon from his selected group. This is a permanent change until the fighter chooses another weapon group and feat to train.

Upon reaching 5th level, the fighter may similarly train a second weapon group, and may choose up to two feats for his first weapon group. At 9th level, he may choose a third group, two feats for his second group, and three feats for his first group. And so on, until at 17th level the fighter may choose five groups each with one, two, three, four, or five associated feats. This is an extraordinary ability.

In lieu of making a feat selection, the fighter may simply choose to add +1 to hit and damage with weapons in his trained group. This bonus stacks with itself. He may also choose to leave one or more weapon group and/or feat slots 'open,' gaining no benefit until he takes 10 minutes to train the empty slot(s) at a later time.

Finally, there is a new weapon group described below:

Paired - the fighter chooses two different non-shield weapons and gains the associated benefits any time he is using both weapons at the same time, but not individually. Two weapon fighting penalties apply normally. (Example: Valeros chooses paired (longsword and shortsword) and picks up a longsword and shortsword. He gains a +1 bonus to attack and damage while fighting with these two weapons. If his opponent disarms his longsword, he gains no benefit from his weapon training ability until he picks it up again.)

>>copy/paste weapon groups here<<

01- Bonus Feats, Weapon Training I
02- Bonus Feat, Bravery +1
03- Armor Training I
04- Bonus Feat
05- Weapon Training II
06- Bonus Feat, Bravery +2
07- Armor Training
08- Bonus Feat
09- Weapon Training III
10- Bonus Feat, Bravery +3

(doesn't this just look right?)

Verdant Wheel

i think this proposal single-handedly solves the fighter's feat versatility problems. whether or not you put in even minimal work consolidating feat trees in your game.

Weapon Training (version 2):

Spoiler:

Fighters train continuously. Once per day after a full nights rest, the fighter may subject himself to a 1 hour training regimen, wherein he trains additional weapon-dependent combat feats at the completion of his exercises. At 1st level he may choose one weapon group and one combat feat. Until he trains again, so long as he is using a weapon from that group, he is treated as having that feat, and if the feat usually only grants it’s benefits to a single weapon, it now grants it’s benefits to all weapons in the same group. Feats selected using this ability must have their prerequisites met using BAB from fighter levels only.

In lieu of making a feat selection, the fighter may simply choose to add +1 to hit and damage with weapons in his trained group. This bonus stacks with itself.

At 5th level, the fighter may similarly train a second weapon group, and may select two combat feats for his first group. At 9th level, he may choose a third group, two feats for his second group, and three feats for his first group. And so on every four fighter levels, until at 17th level the fighter may choose five groups each with one, two, three, four, or five associated feats. This is an extraordinary ability.


...

cheers

Verdant Wheel

Ok. considering this for math simplicity among other things.

Weapon Training works as above. except take away the +1 att/dam option. must pick feats! want numbers/uninspired? choose WF and WS, GWF and GWS.

In it's place, we say any weapons that are currently weapon training weapons suffer no iterative attack penalties. so:

Spoiler:

Weapon Training BAB

+1
+2
+3
+4
+5
+6/+6
+7/+7
+8/+8
+9/+9
+10/+10
+11/+11/+11
+12/+12/+12
+13/+13/+13
+14/+14/+14
+15/+15/+15
+16/+16/+16/+16
+17/+17/+17/+17
+18/+18/+18/+18
+19/+19/+19/+19
+20/+20/+20/+20

my question is: does this have undesired consequences?
TWF?
high AC?
stuff like that.


Well, consistently hitting with every attack in a full attack is probably a desired consequence.

Verdant Wheel

for comparison:

a 6th level core fighter attacks at +6/+1, with +1 att/dam from WT
a 6th level fighter here attacks at +6/+6, with up to +1 att & +2 dam from WT (Focus and Spec)

an 11th level core fighter attacks at +11/+6/+1, with +2 att/dam from WT
an 11th level fighter here attacks at +11/+11/+11, with up to +2 att & +2 dam from WT

a 16th level core attacks at +16/+11/+6/+1, with +3 att/dam from WT
a 16th level here attacks at +16/+16/+16/+16, with up to +2 att & +4 dam from WT

in all cases, the fighter here is taking (greater) Weapon Focus and (greater) Weapon Specialization when possible using the redesigned ability above (ie 'for free' independent of Bonus Feats) - which he doesn't have to do and can instead trade out that numeric advantage for versatility (different feats).

in all cases a core fighter who also invests in G/WF and G/WS can stack those bonuses on top of the WT bonuses, giving him a higher first attack by comparison, but a weaker full-attack sequence.

now that i write this all out, i don't know if i like the 'natural attack' progression. I am interested in people's mathematical analysis compared to other classes.

Verdant Wheel

Did away with the natural attack iteratives, kept the feat versatility.

Weapon Training (version 3):

Spoiler:

A Fighter trains with his weapons continuously. Once per day after a full nights rest, the fighter may spend 1 hour in training, and selects a single weapon group (below) and a single feat at the end of his regimen. Until he trains again, so long as he is using a weapon from the selected group, he is treated as having the selected feat. If the feat usually only grants it’s benefits to a single weapon, it now grants it’s benefits to all weapons in that group. Feats prerequisite must be met using BAB from fighter levels only. The list of weapon groups is as follows:

Axes/Picks, Blades (heavy), Blades (light), Bows, Close weapons, Crossbows, Double weapons, Finesse weapons, Flails/Chains, Guns, Hammers/Maces, Monk weapons, Natural weapons, Paired weapons (choose one specific set), Polearms, Simple weapons, Spears, and Thrown weapons.

At 5th level, the fighter may similarly train a second weapon group, and may select two combat feats for his first group. At 9th level, he may select a third group, two feats for his second group, and three feats for his first group. And so on every four fighter levels, until at 17th level the fighter may choose five groups each with one, two, three, four, or five associated feats.


...

do you think the versatility is a good trade-off to the flat +4/+4 by level seventeen? (compare with simply taking Weapon Focus and Specialization for your training feats, topping to +2/+4, plus one additional feat, by seventeen)

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