Throwing and Pushing in Combat

[coalrabbits]

Hi there! I have been doing my first GM'ing and my group is still learning a lot of the combat rules. One thing we have had happen a few times is 1-players wanting to push someone (over the deck of a ship for example) and 2-wanting to try and pick someone up and throw them at other combatants or just through the air. I imagine these actions may use grapple or other Combat Maneuvers but I was wondering if anyone could break down the actual steps and how many rounds, etc it would take, including what roles the other character may be able to make to avoid or stop the action from occurring. I let the player do it pretty easily as I wanted to keep the game moving but now it is happening more and more so I want to do it right.

Thanks a ton for any help

[Bob Bob Bob]

Push is Bull Rush. It covers pushing someone directly away from you. Picking up and throwing things which are not attended is just a move action that provokes an AoO to pick them up. This is from this FAQ. And throwing things that are not meant to be thrown is an improvised weapon with a range increment of 10 feet and a nonproficiency penalty (usually). The damage is whatever the GM says it is based on the weight and shape of the "weapon".

So for Bull Rush it's a standard combat maneuver, takes a standard action or replaces the attack at the end of a charge, they roll d20+CMB versus the opponents CMD. They add any bonuses they have to general melee attacks to this (so True Strike can get you +20 on your next maneuver). If they don't have Improved Bull Rush then it provokes an AoO from the creature they are doing it to and any damage taken from that AoO is a penalty to their CMB roll (so if they take five damage they subtract five from their total). Details here.

Picking up things is covered under actions in combat (move action that provokes) and throwing whatever you pick up is just an Improvised Weapon. Details of that here, but the short answer is a -4 nonproficient penalty, a range increment of 10 feet, only crits on a 20 for x2 damage, and damage is based on whatever the GM says. Should be something of similar size and shape. Otherwise it's just a standard throwing weapon, d20+Dex to hit and d?+Str damage.

[Rynjin]

Pushing people is 100% Bull Rush. Push 5 feet plus 5 feet for every 5 by which you exceed their CMD. Can be done as a Standard, at the end of a Charge, or in addition to or in place of attacks with certain Feats (EX Quick Bull Rush and Shield Slam). Solid combat maneuver on boats.

Throwing people is usually the realm of more specialized abilities tied to Grapple (like Uncanny Grapple from Mythic Adventures). Unfortunately I don't think there's a non-Mythic option besides Ki Throw, which is really more of an enhanced Trip maneuver.

[That Crazy Alchemist]

RAW, throwing a non-object can't be done outside of mythic. If this is just a home game though DnD 3.5 did have a feat for doing exactly this called:

Fling Enemy:

Fling Enemy

When you're wrestling a foe, you can lift him into the air and hurl him.
Prerequisite
STR 19, Rock Hurling or racial ability to throw rocks, size Large or larger (goliaths qualify by virtue of their powerful build racial trait),
Benefit
When you're grappling a foe, you can fl ing that foe away from you with a successful grapple check. Flinging the enemy requires a standard action. For every 5 points by which your grapple check beats your foe's grapple check or Escape Artist check, you can throw that foe 10 feet. Your foe lands prone in the square you designate. You can't throw a foe farther than you could throw an ally (as described in the Fling Ally feat). You must be strong enough to lift an enemy over your head (the enemy's weight cannot exceed your character's maximum load) to throw him. See page 162 of the Player's Handbook for more information on carrying capacity and maximum load. The enemy does not provoke attacks of opportunity for this movement.

[themightyjello]

If you're a barbarian you have the option of using the rage power Body Bludgeon (requires 10 levels in barbarian) to treat a pinned creature as a two-handed improvised weapon (it doesn't state that it can't be a ranged weapon) as long as the creature is smaller than the barbarian's size.

Body Bludgeon:

Body Bludgeon (Ex)
Prerequisite: Barbarian 10

Benefit: While raging, if the barbarian pins an opponent that is smaller than her, she can then use that opponent as a two-handed improvised weapon that deals 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage, assuming the opponent is sized Small. Larger or smaller creatures used as a bludgeon deal damage based on their size using this base damage. A size Tiny creature deals 1d6 points of damage, a size Medium creature deals 1d10 points of damage, and so on. The barbarian can make a single attack using the pinned opponent as part of the action she uses to maintain the grapple, using her highest attack bonus. Whenever the barbarian hits using the pinned opponent as a weapon, she deals damage to her target normally, and the grappled opponent used as a bludgeon also takes the same damage she dealt to the target. If the pinned opponent is unable to resist being pinned for any reason, the barbarian can use that opponent as an improvised weapon without grappling or pinning the opponent, until the creature is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points, at which point the creature becomes useless as an improvised weapon.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Whoops, completely missed they were talking about throwing people and not objects. As everyone pointed out, throwing people tends to be a specific power. Ki Throw sort of does it, but it's not really throwing them. It's more like tripping and repositioning them. Body Bludgeon totally does, but only after you've already pinned them or they're helpless. Not really useful in general combat.

[That Crazy Alchemist]

Ah nice find Jello! Grab up Raging Hurler and we have ourselves a character capable of tossing enemies by RAW!

Raging Hurler:

Prerequisite: Rage class feature, Throw Anything.

Benefit: While raging, you can throw a two-handed weapon as a standard action, and you double the range increment for weapons you throw. If you also have the Quick Draw feat, you can throw two-handed weapons at your full normal rate of attacks. Further, you can pick up an unattended object that you can use as a improvised weapon within your reach as part of the attack action to throw that item.

[coalrabbits]

This is all really great. Thanks! It looks like when attempting to grapple if the Attack of Oppurtunity is successful it does damage AND becomes a penalty to the CMB. Is that right?

"If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver"

[themightyjello]

Yes, that is true. Though if you have Improved Grapple they don't get to make an attack of opportunity against you and you get +2 on your CMB and CMD involving grapples.

With Greater Grapple you can maintain a grapple as a move action (meaning you can use your standard action to initiate a grapple and your move action to maintain the grapple and establish a pin) which would let you fling that unfortunate sack of meat in 2 rounds rather than 3. It also gives you an additional +2 to your grapple checks.

If you pick up Rapid Grappler this allows you to make a grapple check as a swift action whenever you maintain as a move action with Greater Grapple (which you can also use to 'maintain the grapple').

Body Bludgeon lets you make an attack at your full BAB with a pinned creature every time you succeed on maintaining the grapple which means that if you have someone pinned already you could swing them around at your full BAB (possibly applying power attack bonus) as a two-handed weapon 3 times per round, dealing equal damage to the target and the 'weapon'.

Mix in the Hurling (lesser, base, and greater) rage powers to throw objects while raging and you've got a barkeep's worst nightmare.

Unfortunately I can't find something at the moment that lets you treat your character as one size category larger when grappling. I think there was something either racial or otherwise, but I'm not sure if I'm thinking of 3.5 or pathfinder.

[coalrabbits]

The player who was trying this will love these possibilities. The Bloody Bludgeon power is fantastic. He is not a barbarian at the moment but this may sway him over. Thanks Jello!

[themightyjello]

Glad to be of service! Ooray!