my DM has allowed to make two Ratfolk characters for the same campaign. I want one to be a sanctified slayer with the chivalry inquisition and the other to be a sohei.
Eventually I plan on both rats to be riding a single wolf into combat and my DM is ok with that, but right now I'm struggling with balancing optimization and concept
In early levels I plan on making the Sohei ride the Slayer's mount in combat and the Slayer to stand back and be support and range. In later levels I want to be utilizing teamwork feats and their swarm flanking.
If someone could help point me in the right direction I'd be very graceful
And no I don't want to scrap this idea and play two rogues or rogue-like classes
Roughrider fighter could be a good alternative to sohei you could take a look at, too. And if you want to use teamwork feats the divine huntsman inquisitor might be good to give the mount the teamwork feats, too. Apart from that it sounds like an interesting concept.
You should ask your GM if you count as adjacent while using swarming. If so you can use paired opportunist and outflank at the same time as hunters and divine huntsmen can with their pets. That means if one crits the other gets an AoO with a bonus and if one gets an AoO the other one gets one, too. That means if both go for high crit chances and have combat reflexes they can get a lot of AoOs through criting alone.
What kind of sohei do you want to build?
Reach? High Power 2 hander? Unarmed? Finesse?
And are you going to go with archery style for the slayer, or TWF and just have the early game archery as a small back up? Of abandon that altogether and just grab something simple, like a 2 handed weapon.
My DM rules swarming is adjacent and that should make these guys be a lot of fun flanking and taking extra attacks.
My original class choices were a hunter and an inquisitor because of the free teamwork feats, but for some reason I don't like animal focus. I really want to like the hunter for these characters... While typing this I might have just talked myself into using the scared huntsmen inquisitor even though I don't like animal focus, but free feats.
The Sohei really appealed because pairing lookout with devoted guardian and a guardian mount should make a surprise round equal one less enemy and a light armored wolf mount with monk abilities amuses me.
As for weapons I was thinking focusing on Scimitars for slashing grace, combat reflexes, critical strikes, and teamwork feats
I think I'm trying to stuff too much concept and stupid fun into what these characters can do lol
My DM rules swarming is adjacent and that should make these guys be a lot of fun flanking and taking extra attacks.
My original class choices were a hunter and an inquisitor because of the free teamwork feats, but for some reason I don't like animal focus. I really want to like the hunter for these characters... While typing this I might have just talked myself into using the scared huntsmen inquisitor even though I don't like animal focus, but free feats.
The Sohei really appealed because pairing lookout with devoted guardian and a guardian mount should make a surprise round equal one less enemy and a light armored wolf mount with monk abilities amuses me.
As for weapons I was thinking focusing on Scimitars for slashing grace, combat reflexes, critical strikes, and teamwork feats
Wait, scimitars for the sohei too?
Temple swords might be the better option, since they can actually be flurried (well, without a ton of extra trouble from what I know at least). I know that it is a slight step down due to crit range, but it is still decent enough. Temple swords also benefit from sohei weapon training, and would also benefit from gloves of dueling if you can grab them.
Are you going to grab mounted skirmisher with the sohei's bonus feats? If so, flurry would be even more valuable since you get the mounted version of pounce (I heard some nasty and vague rumors on mounted combat due to FAQs and such though). Constantly getting your fake dull BAB and constantly getting off your fake TWF seems rather powerful.
I was only considering scimitars for a relatively low feat investment for more damage potential; weapon finesse and dervish dance versus weapon finesse, weapon focus, slashing grace and exotic weapon proficiency to use the temple sword and more feats cuts into the number of teamwork feats the sohei could take
I do intend on using the sohei's bonus feats for mounted melee and making a flurry after a charge and with a combat trained mount also taking it's turn... And eventually the mount the monk and inquisitor all assaulting the enemy. My DM also agrees if both rats are mounted on the same creature (with adequate strength) it qualifies for swarming.
I was only considering scimitars for a relatively low feat investment for more damage potential; weapon finesse and dervish dance versus weapon finesse, weapon focus, slashing grace and exotic weapon proficiency to use the temple sword and more feats cuts into the number of teamwork feats the sohei could take
I do intend on using the sohei's bonus feats for mounted melee and making a flurry after a charge and with a combat trained mount also taking it's turn... And eventually the mount the monk and inquisitor all assaulting the enemy. My DM also agrees if both rats are mounted on the same creature (with adequate strength) it qualifies for swarming.
I am...honestly unsure if exotic weapon proficiency is needed. While sohei replaces the normal proficiencies, the temple sword was an add on for the monk (along with brass knuckles and the cestus, if I remember right) that did so by saying 'Monks are proficient with this' in the actual item description.
So you probably should be able to grab it without the extra feat. The item description itself should take precedence, since it doesn't care what kind of monk you are (it just says monk, instead of naming a class feature, like how furious weapons need rage, and it doesn't care if you are barbarian, cleric, ranger, or whatever).
Of course, just grabbing an agile weapon you could flurry with anyway would avoid all this feat business. Since monks can flurry with a single weapon, the investment is rather good (since agile is usually looked down upon sometimes due to prices of a normal TWF set). While some complain about item dependence...that is still one more teamwork feat. So this is just a keen vs. improved crit argument.
For some good finessable choices, you have: brass knuckles, the cestus (similar melee stats to a dagger; b or p), and daggers (sohei can flurry with daggers if they take throwing weapons for weapon training).
If you're going to play ratfolk and plan on taking up the same 5-ft square as the other, why not make one tanky and the other a full BAB melee player and get teamwork feats? Another good thing to do would be to both snipe from the same square with teamwork feats allowing the other to hit if you miss and allowing the other to hit if you crit...
And lastly, both could be of the same build: inquisitor/Master of Many Styles so you both can take different teamwork feats and grapple your targets while the other uses his different feats to pound away with a flurry
It looks like my DM and I just had a major concept change for me. Using a mount was just too much for not enough feats, but we worked out a homebrew archetype for the Magus. Teamwork feats are now an arcana option, level three now gives the cavalier tactician ability instead of magus arcana and the Magus also loses spell recall. My other rat is going to be a rogue. My challenge of making two useful characters with a pet that battle as a single unit just got significantly easier.
The new plan consists of a Kensai (Magus) wielding a tetsubo and a crit fishing Vanguard (Slayer) with the butterfly's sting feat. Both rats will probably take two levels of Lore Warden (Fighter) and we've eliminated the need for anything home brewed. I just need to figure out the fine tuning and synergy between the two characters.