Questions regarding Man Overboard! and Fog Bank

[NyteJKL]

My wife and I played Dangerous Waters last night and ran into a couple cards that I had some questions on to make sure we played it right (or wrong):

Man Overboard!
The text for Man Overboard! indicates that if it is undefeated it gets placed next to a random character and each turn that character must do a Constitution/Fortitude 7 check or bury a card. When that occurs and it is placed next to a random character, can that random character use a Thieves Tool to get rid of it or is the Constitution/Fortitude 7 check the only way to get rid of it?

We played it as Thieve's Tool could not be used because Thieve's Tool indicates it is used to "defeat" a barrier and that when the barrier is next to a character, you are no longer trying to "defeat" the barrier, but trying to "banish" it as noted on the Man Overboard card.

Was this correct? I unfortunately had the barrier placed next to me, and me playing as Lirianne had a Fort of d6+1... with no blessing or other way to pad that roll (but I did have a Thieve's tool), I had to roll a perfect 6. Unfortunately, Lirianne drowned to death after several turns.

Fog Bank
The text for Fog Bank reads "After you play a card or use a power that examines cards in this location deck, shuffle it". Within the deck was the barrier Illusory Wall which allows you to examine the top card of the location deck (in this case Fog Bank) if it is defeated. Would that be considered as "use a power that examines cards in this location deck"? We played it as not, as it was triggered due to the defeat condition and not something we specifically used and that using a power refers to powers on the character card

[Hawkmoon269]

I'd agree on Man Overboard! Once it is placed next to a character, it is no longer a check to defeat it. You won't defeat it. You'll just banish it.

For Fog Bank, I had something similar and I shuffled the Fog Bank. I used the bane's power to examine the location. But that was still using a power.

[csouth154]

Hmmm. We added Man Overboard to the bane pile during the Press Ganged scenario after failing to defeat it but then subsequently passing the con/fort check to banish it. I guess that was a mistake. No biggie, though, since everyone was already at their max hand size by then.

[ryric]

I'm fairly certain the intent with Fog Bank is that you can never really know what's coming. So shuffle after anything lets you look at any card in the location stack. Well, unless there's only one card left. That would be silly.

[Theryon Stormrune]

With Man Overboard!, we've played that after the initial encounter you needed to meet the banish condition. (And in the case of Press Ganged, it wouldn't go to the bane pile until defeated or the banished condition met.) Many a young sailor has drowned with a d6 die.

And we've played that any power or card used to examine the deck causes the shuffle to occur for Fog Bank location.

[NyteJKL]

Thanks guys for the feedback

[Melemkor]

I haven't spotted this card yet... for Man Overboard, does "every turn" mean every single turn, or every one of that character's turns?

[Hawkmoon269]

Every single turn, yours and not yours.

[Joshua Birk 898]

If you get it on a low con character you had best burn blessings right away, this card is dangerous if you don't attend to it immediately.

[Melemkor]

Wow... that's crazily dangerous! I wonder who in our group is going to get hit first! :)

[Dave Riley]

One of the many reasons I've joined the Church of the Ring of Fortitude. +3 gives a lot of breathing room and saves more blessings than the space in your hand it takes up.

[Ashram316]

I'd also throw in the Amulet of Fortitude as a great card to have. That reveal power is really useful given increased number of banes that force you to bury cards if you can't pass a constitution/fortitude check.

[Andrew K]

Ashram316 wrote:

I'd also throw in the Amulet of Fortitude as a great card to have. That reveal power is really useful given increased number of banes that force you to bury cards if you can't pass a constitution/fortitude check.

Our CD Seoni carries hers, and always seems to have it when a recharge to pass is most needed. Between that and our Oloch carrying a Ring of Fortitude, half our party is covered, and the others have at least a d8 anyways.

[Vic Wertz]

Theryon Stormrune wrote:

With Man Overboard!, we've played that after the initial encounter you needed to meet the banish condition. (And in the case of Press Ganged, it wouldn't go to the bane pile until defeated or the banished condition met.) Many a young sailor has drowned with a d6 die.

And we've played that any power or card used to examine the deck causes the shuffle to occur for Fog Bank location.

You have played correctly.

[Fayries]

I had something strange happen with Man Overboard!. It got stuck to Alahazra; the poor oracle having a d6 in Constitution, it is not an easy feat for her to banish the card and she buried a lot of cards even with help from blessings.

Near the end of her deck, seeing her death looming close, she moved alone to a closed location with a full hand and waited there for her deck to empty. She didn't explore and just waited there for the scenario to the end.

Per the Golden Rule:

Golden Rule wrote:

If a card instructs you to do something impossible, like draw a card from an empty deck, ignore that instruction.

when her deck got empty, she ignored the "bury" instruction and since she didn't have to draw cards from her deck at the end of her turn because she had a full hand, she survived half a dozen turns with no cards in her deck.

Did I miss something, or is this a corner case that may need fixing (or not, maybe she just caught a dangling rope and barely survived)?

[pluvia33]

The first sentence in the Dying section of the rules:

"If, for any reason, you are ever required to remove one or more cards from your deck and you don’t have enough cards, your character dies."

So no, poor Alahazra should have died. The same thing happened to my first Agna. I believe that example from the Golden Rule is talking about location decks, because there are already rules for what happens when you have to draw cards from an empty character deck or blessing deck (the character dies or the game is over and you have lost).

[Fayries]

Huh. You're right. This is embarrassing.

[Theryon Stormrune]

Yeah, she has passed on.

If she could not make the check then the first time she tried to bury from the empty deck, she would have died. But if she made if (the check) with an empty deck and a full hand, she would have survived.

[Frencois]

Vic Wertz wrote:

Theryon Stormrune wrote:

And we've played that any power or card used to examine the deck causes the shuffle to occur for Fog Bank location.

You have played correctly.

Hi Vic,

So, if I play Detect Magic in Fog Bank and find something magic that I could "immediately" encounter", can I indeed encounter it before it gets reshuffled?

[Theryon Stormrune]

If you would play any card or use any power that examines and specifically says "and you may encounter" or "you may immediately encounter" then you do the encounter first. Then shuffle afterwards.

[Andrew Klein]

Theryon is correct. Finish one thing before doing the next. Finish resolving Detect Magic, then worry about other cards telling you to do something.