1) If I use Reach Spell on a spell like Chill Touch or Rusting Grasp that allow melee touch attacks each round, do I get a ranged touch attack each round?
2) If you use Reach Spell on a melee touch attack spell (thus making it require a ranged touch attack), does that attack count as a weapon for the purposes of feats. If so, what would the weapon type for feats be (since I'm pretty sure it's not a ray)? If it doesn't count as a weapon, then does that mean you don't start taking penalties when using those ranged touch attacks while levitating with Levitation?
PRD/combat wrote: Ranged Touch Spells in Combat: Some spells allow you to make a ranged touch attack as part of the casting of the spell. These attacks are made as part of the spell and do not require a separate action. Ranged touch attacks provoke an attack of opportunity, even if the spell that causes the attacks was cast defensively. Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn. No. Reach metamagic only increases the range from a melee touch to a ranged attack; it doesn't change the rule that ranged touch attacks can't be held until a later turn. So, Reach is probably a very poor choice for Chill Touch or the like since you'll only get one iteration of the damage. Better to use it on a "standard" touch attack like Shocking Grasp.
Except 'holding a charge' isn't what you're doing with Chill Touch really:
prd wrote: School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range touch
Targets creature or creatures touched (up to one/level)
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Fortitude partial or Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yes
A touch from your hand, which glows with blue energy, disrupts the life force of living creatures. Each touch channels negative energy that deals 1d6 points of damage. The touched creature also takes 1 point of Strength damage unless it makes a successful Fortitude saving throw. You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level.
An undead creature you touch takes no damage of either sort, but it must make a successful Will saving throw or flee as if panicked for 1d4 rounds + 1 round per caster level.
Each use is a different negative-energy channeling touch. You get to use the touch attack up to one time per level. If you were just 'holding a charge', then touching something (like your melee touch opponent) would discharge the effect entirely. Right?
And, if anything qualified as "unless otherwise noted", wouldn't the wording in this spell? Admittedly, of course, it is written under melee touch assumptions. But again, holding a charge is different than what this spell does I think.
Unless otherwise noted, ranged touch attacks cannot be held until a later turn.
The chill touch or Rusting grasp spell, in there spell description, is the otherwise noted .
So would be a range touch attack for each use per round. Each use would cause an Attack of Opportunity tho, as a range touch attack. In addition to the AoE caused by casting the spell during is first round.
Chill Touch and similar are holding the charge; just with a special rule that they aren't completely discharged after a single touch. That's a specific exception to a general rule. Generally, held charges discharge after a single touch. Specifically, these spells override that and they only discharge after a floating variable number of touches. Keep in mind that you are holding the charge even on the turn you cast the touch spell, between casting and delivering that first free touch attempt.
Chill Touch et. al. only state that you may use this melee touch attack up to one time per level. It does not say that, if converted to a close ranged touch attack that you may hold said ranged touch attack; that's a different rules element.
Hrmm.. I'm curious on this one, as I'd planned on it as a lynchpin of the arcane trickster I was building. Some sort of consensus, therefore, would be worthwhile.
I think you continue to get the benefits of reach. You get repeated attacks as a benefit of the spell, this is not the same as "holding a charge", you get repeated attacks per level. This is similar to using persistent metamagic on spells like glitterdust where you get a save every round. Persistent continues to work, they must save twice each round. I believe this would be the same.
I would say it works like this.
1) Chill Touch allows one melee touch attack per caster level. Reach Spell alters the range of the spell, making these ranged touch attacks. Therefore, you would get as many as your caster level in ranged touch attacks.
2) The only spells that count as weapons are ray spells. Since Reach Spell doesn't specifically make the spell a ray, it would not count as a weapon.
Ugh, the ray/ranged touch distinction. It makes the game more complicated and foments debate for no discernible gain.
You absolutely get multiple attacks from Chill Touch.
What a lot of people don't know is that once the initial held charge of chill touch is spent, the spell actually becomes a buff allowing you to make these extra touch attacks.
So in the the case of Reach Spell, you would make your ranged attack, spending your "held charge" and providing you with the chill touch buff.
Once that happens you can start spending attack actions to shoot your chill touch rays, but because they're rays, you do use up a use of Chill Touch for each ray you shoot.
I found out this from Devs a while back and thought it was super interesting. The same logic applies to other similar spells like Frostbite.
Iorthol wrote: You absolutely get multiple attacks from Chill Touch.
What a lot of people don't know is that once the initial held charge of chill touch is spent, the spell actually becomes a buff allowing you to make these extra touch attacks.
So in the the case of Reach Spell, you would make your ranged attack, spending your "held charge" and providing you with the chill touch buff.
Once that happens you can start spending attack actions to shoot your chill touch rays, but because they're rays, you do use up a use of Chill Touch for each ray you shoot.
I found out this from Devs a while back and thought it was super interesting. The same logic applies to other similar spells like Frostbite.
Do you have a citation for this? Seriously, I'd love to bookmark it for future discussions.
I'd like to see a citation for that too please.
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