Knocking down flying creatures -- which status effects?


Advice


We've just hit the point in our adventures where flying opponents are a regular thing, but not everyone in the party has the ability to fly yet. So it looks like one tactic might end up being "knock down the flying critters so the barbarian can eat their faces."

Assume I'm using Orfamay's Statusifier, and can put any status effect I like onto opponents. Obviously, "dead" would handle the problem, and obviously "deafened" wouldn't. But, for example, can a "dazed" dragon still stay aloft? How about a "pinned" or "stunned" dragon? "Cowering"?


A Dazed flier could stay aloft with a DC 15 Fly check to hover. He can't take actions, but a Fly check is explicitly not considered an action. Stunned also would be the same effect, simply forcing a DC 15 Fly check.

Paralyzed would cause them to fall, as specified in the condition description.

I seem to remember certain Entangling effects can take down winged fliers, but that might be spell-specific and not a general result of the Entangled effect.

Grappled and Pinned forbid the target from moving, but unless it's already on the ground that won't be a huge help.


Entangled reduces both Dec and movement speed. If the opponent didn't Have hover, the flying opponent could fall.


RumpinRufus wrote:
A Dazed flier could stay aloft with a DC 15 Fly check to hover. He can't take actions, but a Fly check is explicitly not considered an action. Stunned also would be the same effect, simply forcing a DC 15 Fly check.

Actually, it doesn't day that a fly check is "not an action"; it says it doesn't "require an action":

Fly skill (emphasis mine) wrote:
Action: None. A Fly check doesn't require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.

The way I read that, making a fly check does not consume one of your actions, but you still must be physically capable of taking some kind of action. If you can't take any actions or can't react, you don't get opportunity to make a fly check.

If you read "doesn't require an action" as "is not an action", that would mean that you automatically always get a fly check and can make a fly check even while unconscious (like a saving throw). That seems completely wrong to me.

RumpinRufus wrote:

I seem to remember certain Entangling effects can take down winged fliers, but that might be spell-specific and not a general result of the Entangled effect.

Grappled and Pinned forbid the target from moving, but unless it's already on the ground that won't be a huge help.

The entangled wings text I'm familiar with is from the Tanglefoot bag description. It might appear in other places. Entangled flying creatures would take a -2 penalty to fly checks (from the -4 Dex penalty), no matter what.

For a grappled creature, I think all you can do is check the creature's encumbrance. If the grappler is too heavy for the flyer, it would take penalties under the encumbrance rules. (The Fly spell says you can't fly at all if your are over your heavy load, but I think that's specific to the spell.)

As far as pinned, the way I read the fly skill text, pinning a winged critter would most likely force it down. (If the grappler is two sizes smaller than the target, I can see that the grappler might not be able to get both wings.)


Gwen Smith wrote:
RumpinRufus wrote:
A Dazed flier could stay aloft with a DC 15 Fly check to hover. He can't take actions, but a Fly check is explicitly not considered an action. Stunned also would be the same effect, simply forcing a DC 15 Fly check.

Actually, it doesn't day that a fly check is "not an action"; it says it doesn't "require an action":

Fly skill (emphasis mine) wrote:
Action: None. A Fly check doesn't require an action; it is made as part of another action or as a reaction to a situation.
The way I read that, making a fly check does not consume one of your actions, but you still must be physically capable of taking some kind of action.

I'm not sure about it -- I'd obviously prefer if dazed meant you plummeted to the ground, but I could also see the reading that you make the fly check "in reaction to the situation", where the situation is specifically that you are suddenly dazed and can't take move actions.


I wonder if a Confused creature which babbles incoherently or does nothing would still bother to make a Fly check.

Being Slowed would probably make it tougher to fly around doing bad things to the party.

You might be able to catch some flying creatures with a net. They'd be Entangled and unable to move beyond the length of the attached rope.

It isn't a status effect, but a Wall of Stone could create a roof to protect you. I guess Tiny Hut might at least give you concealment.

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