Just wanted to make sure I'm reading both of these right,
1. Measured Response -feat from Faiths of Balance Player Companion book reads that you count as if you had rolled the exact average damage with melee or ranged weapon damage die or dice (1d6 ~ 3.5, 2d6 ~ 7), rounded down.
2. Dragon's Breath Alchemical Cartridge reads, that its misfire works slightly differently, because you're not making an attack roll, since it requires a saving throw from the targets. It instead misfires if you rolled 1 on any of the damage dice.
So, if decided to, and I don't see why not to, use Measured Response feat when firing e.g. Dragon's Breath with my firearm, it would seem I wouldn't practically ever misfire, since the damage is considered to have rolled the exact average (2d6; 3.5 + 3.5 = 7)
Is this correct, or even so, intended. Or am I just misreading the rules to my own favor?
Also, now that I'm planning to make my very first gunslinger (apart from the initial realization), I might as well ask does the guntraining apply to alchemical cartridges and/or scatter damage?
I was thinking of Guntank archetype and I keep wondering that when Guntank receives Armor Training (in place of bonus feats), does it count as if Fighter's Armor Training (as in, does he get the same benefit with armor speed reducement as a fighter?)
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The average of 2d6 is 7, but that don't mean that the two dices have rolled a 3.5. You could have roiled a 1 and a 6, 2+5 or a 3+4.
Your situation is fairly problematic, I, as a GM, would ask you to roll the dices nonetheless and the, if you don't misfire, apply the average result regardless of what you have rolled.
That would leave you with the standard misfire chance 11/36 if I am not mistaken.
Rolling only 1 dice and automatically taking the other result as what you need to get a 7 would be worse as a 1 or 6 on the die would cause a misfire (with a 6 you would get a 1 on the second die).
2/6 or 12/36 chance of a misfire.
A possible way to reward your feat acquisition would be to have you roll only 1 die and misfire only on a 1, but that would be a houserule. I don't see any way to adjudicate this situation without using houserules if the Faiths of Balance feat do what you say.
Measured Response (Combat)
You believe that a conservative but consistent response guarantees success.Prerequisites: Worshiper of Abadar, base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: When you hit an opponent with a melee or ranged attack, you may choose to deal average damage (rounded down), as if you had rolled exactly the average amount on the damage die or dice. You add your damage bonuses and penalties as normal.
There you go, for reference :)
Also, I'd like to add, the character I had in mind is made for pathfinder society, and houserules might be somewhat GM-related table by table. I can agree each GM might rule it their own way if or when it becomes necessary. Likewise, it's a valid point, that an average can indeed occur from various combinations of 2d6. But since you specifically don't roll any dice but get an average instead, it becomes a question worth thinking through :)
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Is this correct, or even so, intended. Or am I just misreading the rules to my own favor?
At my PFS table, I'd give you average and make you roll damage (that is ignored except for verifying mis-fire.)
Measured doesn't say "and remove all harmful effects of rolling low damage" so it doesn't do that.
Measured doesn't say "and remove all harmful effects of rolling low damage" so it doesn't do that.
Now that line would be a little bit redundant, don't you think? Only to apply with Dragon's Breath?
At least I can't think of any other abilities apart from that one Alchemical Cartridge misfire exception rule where rolling low damage would be harmful to you or anyone near you. Therefore adding a line like that to more or less multipurpose feat would feel rather odd since it would only apply to one item.
But as I said earlier, I would of course go by the current GM's ruling with that.
Diego Rossi had a valid point on the average damage, so that alone would cause the mishap still happen. But I think rolling percentile dice for the chance would be more appropriate. If that 11/36 is correct (I'm a bit rusty on that part to make any better assumptions), appropriate misfire chance would be roughly 30%. So, rolling that or less would cause a misfire.
Another similar case came up today. How would Touch of Law (Law Domain power) act with misfires, since it makes the target treat his or her attack rolls as if the d20 rolls for each attack had resulted in 11 for one full round?
Would Measured Response even be applicable in this situation since your replacing the attack with a saving throw?
Funny you should mention it, it does indeed say "when you hit..." so yeah, it wouldn't even apply in that case :D
Didn't notice that bit before, or rather didn't pay attention enough.
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Another similar case came up today. How would Touch of Law (Law Domain power) act with misfires, since it makes the target treat his or her attack rolls as if the d20 rolls for each attack had resulted in 11 for one full round?
That would work, I think. It actually replace the value of the dice you would have rolled.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Why?
Same reason we "round down", apply Magical Knack in the "least advantageous" way, and can't do some things if we are immune to the negative consequences.
Just because you are not rolling dice, doesn't mean that the gun suddenly can no longer misfire.
Each GM is welcome to do it differently, but if you are at my table I'll feel I'm following RAW to make you roll then take average due to Measured Response.
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Why?Same reason we "round down", apply Magical Knack in the "least advantageous" way, and can't do some things if we are immune to the negative consequences.
Just because you are not rolling dice, doesn't mean that the gun suddenly can no longer misfire.
Each GM is welcome to do it differently, but if you are at my table I'll feel I'm following RAW to make you roll then take average due to Measured Response.
I think you are confusing RAI with RAW here.
You may be right with RAI here, but RAW does not support your statement.
The "as if you had rolled exactly the average amount on the damage die or dice" part of the feat indicates nothing about the bonuses or negatives of rolling high, or low, on the damage die still applying.
In fact, you have provided nothing RAW to support your position.
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I think the key point is you still need to make the misfire checks even if you are taking average or "rolling 11" each time.
Touch of Law (Sp): You can touch a willing creature as a standard action, infusing it with the power of divine order and allowing it to treat all attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 round as if the natural d20 roll resulted in an 11. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
The domain power actually substitute the die roll and give a specific result on the die roll, with all the positive and negative aspects.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I think you are confusing RAI with RAW here.
We just differ on the meaning of the RAW.
Diego's post on Touch of Law does change my interpretation of the "Roll 11" thing.
So with Touch of Law you wouldn't need to make a misfire check, but with measured response you would still need to make the check.