When using Lini in combat with out a weapon does discarding a card to make your strength a 1d10 still make it a d4 since lini doesnt have the melee skill?
When using Lini in combat with out a weapon does discarding a card to make your strength a 1d10 still make it a d4 since lini doesnt have the melee skill?No. You can always use strength OR melee for your combat check. In fact, you have to use one of those two skills unless you play a card that tells you what to roll for your combat check.
This is the example in the skull and shackles rules:
Example:
... Combat 8, or Dexterity or Stealth 6. Combat checks use Strength or Melee (unless a card changes that); Merisiel’s Strength skill is d6, and since she doesn’t have the Melee skill, she would roll a d4 for that. Her Dexterity skill is d12, and her Stealth skill is Dexterity+2, so if she picked Stealth,
she’d roll d12+2 and would only need to a 6 or better to defeat
the monster. However, she has a Cutlass +1 in her hand, which
she could reveal to use Strength or Melee + 1d6+1 for her combat
check. Better still, Merisiel has a special power that gives her the skill
Melee: Dexterity +1 when she plays a weapon with the Finesse trait.
Since the Cutlass +1 has that trait, that makes her Melee skill d12+1,
and the weapon adds another 1d6+1 for a total combat check of
1d12 + 1d6+2. She needs an 8 or higher, and she rolls two 5s for a
total of 12. She defeats that pesky Dire Rat, banishing it.
Sorry maybe I'm not getting it.
So if this read: Lini's Strength is a 1d10, and since he doesn't have the Melee skill, he would role a 1d4 for that.
Dont you have to have a ranged or melee skill to do a combat check and if you dont it goes to 1d4?
Or do you get to default to just your strength of 1d10. The example seems to say otherwise.
Sorry not trying to be a pain lol.
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If you don't play a card, you choose between Strength or Melee, Ranged is not an option. Certain cards say "For your combat check" and give you extra dice, and sometimes let you use other skills instead of Str/Mel. Usually things like Dex/Ranged for bows or Divine/Arcane on spells.
You are correct though that choosing a skill not on your card uses a d4. Keep in my that some characters, like S&S Lem, don't list Melee, but if you look at the powers you see that he does get to use his Dex + 1 for Melee when using or against a weapon with the Finesse trait.
Also, note that Lini's power does not make her Strength a d10, it just lets her use a d10 instead. So if you play a card that says Add your Strength die, that is not a d10.
The example is trying to say this:
The Dire Rat has 3 options to defeat Combat 8, Dexterity 6, or Stealth 6.
But Merisiel has 5 options.
Option 1: She could attempt the Dexterity 6 check. Her Dexterity is d12.
Option 2: She could attempt the Stealth 6 check. Her Stealth is d12+2
Option 3: She could use her Strength to attempt the Combat 8 check. Her Strength is d6.
Opiton 4: She could use her Melee to attempt the Combat 8 check. Her Melee is d4.
Option 5: She could play a card that allows her to replace the required skill with another. She has a Cutlass +1, which is such a card since it defines a Combat check. In doing so, the Weapon still offers her a choice of Strength or Melee. Because of her "finesse" power, when playing such a card Merisiel's Melee is Dexterity + 1, so while playing this card her Melee is d12 +1.
Now, back to Lini. Lini can play a weapon and choose the option on it to use Strength instead of the option to use Melee. And if she uses her power, that means a d10.
Also, note that Lini's power does not make her Strength a d10, it just lets her use a d10 instead. So if you play a card that says Add your Strength die, that is not a d10.
That is incorrect. For the duration of the check, her Strength die is a d10. If she played a blessing to add 2 dice to a Strength check, she would add 2d10s. You can especially see this in the new version of this power in Skull and Shackles:
You may discard a card to use a d12 for your Strength or Dexterity die;
While the RotR version says "You may discard a card to roll d10 instead of your Strength or Dexterity die for any check." But the intent was always that the d10 became her Strength (or Dexterity) die for the duration of the check.
thanks everyone i believe i understand now
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Also, note that Lini's power does not make her Strength a d10, it just lets her use a d10 instead. So if you play a card that says Add your Strength die, that is not a d10.That is incorrect. For the duration of the check, her Strength die is a d10. If she played a blessing to add 2 dice to a Strength check, she would add 2d10s. You can especially see this in the new version of this power in Skull and Shackles:
You may discard a card to use a d12 for your Strength or Dexterity die;While the RotR version says "You may discard a card to roll d10 instead of your Strength or Dexterity die for any check." But the intent was always that the d10 became her Strength (or Dexterity) die for the duration of the check.
I thought I had seen on the forums that they had said otherwise (in response to a question by you actually)
Hmmmm. Not that I recall. Here is where I explained how it works, with a link to where Mike confirms some of that.
I'll do some more checking to be sure.
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With thy post you linked, I'm inclined to actually say it sounds more like it works how I posted. To me, it works like the statstones. You play an Onyx of Constition on a Strength check, but it doesn't make your Strength equal to your Con die, it just lets you use your Con instead, and the check is still a Strength check and uses you strength bonuses.
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I read it as only affecting the die determined by your skill. The S&S one is blatantly obviously everything, as it specifically says that your str/Dex become a d12. As opposed to Runelords where it states you use the d10 instead of your str/Dex, not as you str/Dex. It looks to me like it's just one of the many places in Runelords where a card could have been worded better.
Regardless, Hawk, I don't see anything from Mike confirming either way where you linked. He says the post is correct, but the post doesn't really say anything that disagrees with what any of us are saying here. It says she's making a Strength check, and I agree with that, just with a different die.
Speaking of which, it just occured to me that people like to say she turns into a bear with this power. A bear that apparently can shoot bows and guns very well, because Pathfinder.
It might be some kind of circus bear.
For me, there was never any doubt that your Strength die "is" d10 for the duration of the check. I apply the same reasoning to stat stones: when you bless Freiya's strength check she played a Sapphire of Intelligence on, she gets extra d12s, though you'd have to play a Blessing of Gorum for her to get two.
Howeeeever, in that case if she recharged an ally that added her Strength die, it'd be a d6 instead of a d12, so I think I see where you're coming from Andrew. Still, in Lini's case I wouldn't add a d4, she'd get another d10.
Why would the ally only give d6? What makes it different from a blessing?
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A blessing of Gorum doesn't add your Strength die, it adds to a Strength check, which you are still making (you use a new die, not a new skill). The fact that they reworded Lini to an obvious statement that her Strength is now a d12, but the stat stones still say you use the other skill did "instead" to me means that they want that one to not change the skill die. Your Strength die doesn't become equal to your Con die, you just flat out use your Con die, and haven't made any changes to your Strength die.
What is the exact wording on a statstone?
Ah. Ok. I missed the subtlety of what you were saying. So "add a die" vs. "add your Strength die". I see. Are there any allies that do such a thing?
And regardless, I'm still of the opinion at this point that RotR Lini is supposed to work just like S&S Lini with respect to this power, the only difference being a d10 instead of a d12 for that power.
And I'm of the opinion that the statstones do essentially replace the die, so blessings would add more of the same die as well. Though I can only argue from silence (which is never a good argument really), but Mike had the oppurtunity to say otherwise here. Not that we should take that as confirmation, but we can at least say he didn't say that was wrong. Which is slightly more than nothing.
Statstone wording is "Recharge this card to roll your X die instead of the normal die on a noncombat check."
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The only cards I know of that add Strength dice specifically are weapons like Longview or, I think it was the Greataxe?
I agree on old Lini working like the new, and that they just changed the wording to a more clear version. It's because of that change, and the stones using the old wording, that I feel they work differently.
With that statstone wording you posted, I 100% think that it works like I previously thought Lini's does. "Normal die" doesn't exactly have a game definition, but it definitely isn't every die (otherwise you'd be switching extra d4s from spells and such, so no). So that leaves it as the initial base die, or all dice of that skill involved in the check. I see no way that "normal die" could possibly mean all dice of that skill, so it leaves only one other option to me. It indicates one die only, and certainly not every die that is added for that stat.
The distinction I was trying to make between stat stones and any Lini iteration:
Freiya plays Intelligence stat stone on her Strength check.
An Intelligence blessing still adds 1 die, Strength blessing still adds 2 dice. Both would be d12, even though her strength is d6.
She recharges the ally (which I just made up) that says "add your Strength die" Her strength die is NOT d12, so she adds a d6, even though she's rolling d12s as the "main" die.
Lini discards a card to make her Strength d12.
It's still a strength check. Nothing has changed, but the die, in all uses, is a d12 until the check is over. If she recharges the same ally Freiya had, either iteration of her would add a d10/d12.
A monster has a power that says "After you act, if your Strength die is greater than d8 take 1 combat damage." Lini takes damage, Freiya does not. But, given how the stat stones caused immediate confusion (me included, adding Damiel's pluses), I can see how this might add some weirdness, especially if the wording is really that similar to RoRL Lini.