Dealing out a Full Attack

[Thewissen]

Let's say there's a combat going on. A wizard and a sorcerer teaming up against a ranger. They are all level six, which entitles the ranger to 2 attacks if he takes a full round action. +6/+1

The ranger's turn comes up before the wizard's or the sorcerer's. He decides to wait for his opponents to act first.

The Wizard starts casting, and the ranger decides to shoot and distract him. Let's say the ranger manages it.

Now it's the sorcerer's turn. He starts casting as well. The ranger wants to shoot and distract him as well, using the attack he has left.

Is this possible? Narratively, I don't see a problem with it, and it makes sense. Unless the wizard and sorcerer decided to act simultaneously so that one gets shot so the other can get her spell out, I'd allow it.

I've been combing over the rules, however, to see if they allow it. The rules say you can't ready a full round action, I know. But I played it over in my mind and I honestly do not see a problem with it! I was wondering if someone here could give their thoughts.

Thanks!

[RumpinRufus]

The rules clearly don't allow this, as you've picked up on. You can't ready a full-round action, and you can't ready multiple actions (besides free actions.)

[Ciaran Barnes]

If the ranger wants to ready an action (meaning he prepares a specific action that will be triggered by a specific event), he needs to make that decision on his turn. If he decides to wait and see what happens, the wizard and sorcerer get to complete their actions normally.

[Cyrad]

The only way to interrupt a turn is either a readied action, immediate action, or an attack of opportunity. You cannot delay your initiative and take your turn in the middle of another unit's turn.

You can, however, delay your turn and then ready one of your actions. For example, the ranger could pull out an arrow while moving to the wizard, wield the arrow as an improvised weapon, and then ready his standard action to fire at the sorcerer when he casts a spell. If the wizard casts a spell while the ranger threatens him with the arrow, the ranger can stab him as an attack of opportunity while still giving him the option of shooting the sorcerer afterward.

[Thewissen]

Haha! This one's clever :D

[thegreenteagamer]

Readied Actions wrote:

You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.

You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.

Emphasis mine. You can't ready a full-round action.

[Kalridian]

Afaik, taking the aoo against the wizard would "discharge" your readied action, since you can't do anything else while having an action readied, so Cyrads idea wouldn't work.

[kinevon]

Kalridian wrote:

Afaik, taking the aoo against the wizard would "discharge" your readied action, since you can't do anything else while having an action readied, so Cyrads idea wouldn't work.

AoOs and Readied Actions are separate things. Taking an AoO, unless it leaves you in a state that invalidates your trigger for your Readied Action, won't disable your Readied Action.

Indeed, depending on circumstances, it is possible to get both your Readied Action and an AoO against the same target.

Pole arm wielder, readies an attack against an enemy moving out of his threatened area. Enemy charges the PAW, moving from 20' away. As the charger exits the 10' square from the PAW, he triggers both an AoO, for moving out of a threatened square, and the Ready, for meeting the trigger for it. Even more fun, depending on the feats/build of the PAW, there is the possibility for the target triggering more AoOs,

[Kalridian]

Hm, can't find the rules I had in my head either, I guess that's what you get for GMing in 3 different systems...

[Lifat]

kinevon wrote:

Kalridian wrote:

Afaik, taking the aoo against the wizard would "discharge" your readied action, since you can't do anything else while having an action readied, so Cyrads idea wouldn't work.

AoOs and Readied Actions are separate things. Taking an AoO, unless it leaves you in a state that invalidates your trigger for your Readied Action, won't disable your Readied Action.

Indeed, depending on circumstances, it is possible to get both your Readied Action and an AoO against the same target.

Pole arm wielder, readies an attack against an enemy moving out of his threatened area. Enemy charges the PAW, moving from 20' away. As the charger exits the 10' square from the PAW, he triggers both an AoO, for moving out of a threatened square, and the Ready, for meeting the trigger for it. Even more fun, depending on the feats/build of the PAW, there is the possibility for the target triggering more AoOs,

The PAW could use the AoO for a trip attempt, and assuming he has the feats, if he trips the target that would trigger another AoO.

In total the PAW could trip him with his AoO, hit him with the readied action and then AoO hit him while he is down. Lesson is: Don't walk away from a guy with reach weapon who has a readied action.

[Akerlof]

Thewissen wrote:

Is this possible? Narratively, I don't see a problem with it, and it makes sense. Unless the wizard and sorcerer decided to act simultaneously so that one gets shot so the other can get her spell out, I'd allow it.

It's best to think in terms of game mechanics: Things happen the way they do because the game is built that way. When we think narratively, we apply our real-world experiences to a fantasy game where dragons are real, so we tend to screw over some things while giving others too easy of a pass. We also tend to think in terms of fiction, like books and movies, but the rules for those don't work very well in a collaborative environment where multiple people want to share the spotlight.

So, mechanically, you cannot ready a full round action. Full stop.

If you really do want to think narratively in this case, look at it this way:
The archer has a decision to make, is he going to focus his attention on getting as many attacks in as possible? (Which is still relatively difficult for him, he only performs his second attack as well as a first level character would, after all.) Or is he going to focus his attention on identifying a spell being cast and attempt a snap shot at the caster? There's a trade off based on what he's focusing on.

The tradeoff is really important: Interesting stories are made because decisions matter, and tradeoffs are important ways of making that happen.

[kinevon]

Lifat wrote:

kinevon wrote:

Kalridian wrote:

Afaik, taking the aoo against the wizard would "discharge" your readied action, since you can't do anything else while having an action readied, so Cyrads idea wouldn't work.

AoOs and Readied Actions are separate things. Taking an AoO, unless it leaves you in a state that invalidates your trigger for your Readied Action, won't disable your Readied Action.

Indeed, depending on circumstances, it is possible to get both your Readied Action and an AoO against the same target.

Pole arm wielder, readies an attack against an enemy moving out of his threatened area. Enemy charges the PAW, moving from 20' away. As the charger exits the 10' square from the PAW, he triggers both an AoO, for moving out of a threatened square, and the Ready, for meeting the trigger for it. Even more fun, depending on the feats/build of the PAW, there is the possibility for the target triggering more AoOs,

The PAW could use the AoO for a trip attempt, and assuming he has the feats, if he trips the target that would trigger another AoO.

In total the PAW could trip him with his AoO, hit him with the readied action and then AoO hit him while he is down. Lesson is: Don't walk away from a guy with reach weapon who has a readied action.

Yep, my post was implying the Greater Trip feat, and its corollaries.

Then again, a trip focused non=PAW, IUS user can be ugly, too.
Trip, AoO from Greater Trip, then another AoO from Vicious Stomp.

We won't go into collaborative builds, where a crit from one AoO can trigger additional AoOs from allies on the same target...

Nor will we mention the debate on using the Greater Trip AoO to trip the same target again, along with allies with Combat Reflexes...