The Brawler's weapon proficiencies are:
A brawler is proficient with all simple weapons plus the handaxe, short sword, and weapons from the close fighter weapon group. She is proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
And the Close Weapon Group (from Ultimate Combat) is:
bayonet, brass knuckles, cestus, dan bong, emei piercer, fighting fan, gauntlet, heavy shield, iron brush, light shield, madu, mere club, punching dagger, sap, scizore, spiked armor, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, tekko-kagi, tonfa, unarmed strike, wooden stake, and wushu dart
So my read on that is that the Brawler is actually proficient with shields, as they are listed under the Close Weapon Group.
Is this right / wrong?
I hear that - but the counterpoint would be the 'Shield Champion' archetype - which has:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A shield champion is proficient with all simple weapons. She is also proficient with light armor, and with bucklers, light shields, and heavy shields.
The light shield is listed under martial weapons - not simple. So if blackbloodtroll's interpretation is correct then the shield champion would be proficient with shields as armor, but not proficient at bashing with shields.
I hear that - but the counterpoint would be the 'Shield Champion' archetype - which has:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A shield champion is proficient with all simple weapons. She is also proficient with light armor, and with bucklers, light shields, and heavy shields.The light shield is listed under martial weapons - not simple. So if blackbloodtroll's interpretation is correct then the shield champion would be proficient with shields as armor, but not proficient at bashing with shields.
Yes.
The ACG is terribly edited.
I hear that - but the counterpoint would be the 'Shield Champion' archetype - which has:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A shield champion is proficient with all simple weapons. She is also proficient with light armor, and with bucklers, light shields, and heavy shields.The light shield is listed under martial weapons - not simple. So if blackbloodtroll's interpretation is correct then the shield champion would be proficient with shields as armor, but not proficient at bashing with shields.
Yes.
The ACG is terribly edited.
Yup, the shield champion is nonproficient with shields as weapons. D'oh. Unless you read it literally--perhaps being proficient in one capacity automatically grants proficiency in the other capacity. I doubt it, though, given the prevalence of archetypes proficient with all martial weapons but not proficient with shields.
Martial Weapon Proficiency (no pre-reqs): allows the use of a single martial weapon without penalty.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (BAB +1 req): allows the use of a single exotic weapon without penalty.
Under Shield entry (in Core) it states: Used this way, a light shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. or piercing weapon for spiked shields.
So yeah - they are distinct and separate... hmm, that's a weird little corner case then.
So if one wanted to use a madu defensively as a Brawler one would need to take the shield proficiency. Though you could still get a benefit from the special madu rules without needing shield proficiency.
If you are proficient with the madu, you may use it to fight defensively with a –2 penalty instead of the normal –4, and your attack penalty for using Combat Expertise improves by +1 (minimum –1 penalty).
Question answered.