WHW's Prehensile hair and Final Embrace


Rules Questions


White-haired Witch, Prehensile Hair Hex, and Final Embrace Feat.

There have been discussions on these and similar topics in how they work. But I have not found anything definitive that talks about how these 3 interplay with each other.

I am considering a variant build for PFS based on Mathwei apNiall's Defiler found in this guide.

In reading through the various pdf's, FAQs, and discussions, I come away with the following:

As WHW2/Hexcrafter4+ I have White hair that is always active. With it I:
Can attack targets 5ft away.
Use my Str on attack rolls.
Deal 1d4 + Int in damage on a hit.
Get a free grapple check (using Int) to grapple the target that I hit which, if successful, does not leave me grappled.
Deal 1d4 + Int constrict damage as a swift action on a successful grapple.

If I take Final Embrace, I:
Change the Constrict from a swift to a free action, but only on targets that are my size or smaller.

Lastly, by activating Prehensile hair, I:
Increase the reach of my hair from 5ft to 10ft.
Use my Int on attack rolls.
Add 1.5x Int on hit and constrict damage if it is my sole attack.
Can Spell Combat with the hair because it is associated with a hand.

Is this an accurate reading of how these interact? Or do I have it wrong somewhere?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Several points of note here. These interact counter-intuitively in places, so don't worry too much about them being wrong. I believe that they were also incorrect in the guide.

1. Unfortunately the White Haired Witch's White Hair ability is a separate ability from the Prehensile Hair hex, so they are separate attacks. In a home game, it would be perfectly reasonable to interpret that they "merge", and I have indeed done so for characters in home games, but that is not the case as written and cannot be used in that fashion in society play.

2. Final Embrace does indeed change the constrict to a free action that only works on targets of your size or smaller. Further, it grants you the Grab special attack, which you technically did not have prior, granting you a +4 on all grapple checks. Yet further, having the actual special attacks now, these are extended to all of this character's natural attacks and/or unarmed strikes. Additionally, it also changes the damage to be equal to that of a primary attack, assuming that a secondary attack is the one that has grabbed the opponent.

3. The Prehensile Hair states that she "can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score", while Spell Combat states that "To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components)". As Prehensile Hair counts as a "limb" but not necessarily a "hand", it likely does not qualify as a free hand for Spell Combat. I would rule against it, but you should expect table variation either way.

3. Prehensile Hair has a duration, while White Hair does not. Even if you had both, Prehensile Hair would not be always active.

In Summary, as a WHW2/Hexcrafter 4 with White Hair, Prehensile Hair and Final Embrace. You would have two separate hair attacks, that can function together in a full attack as follows:
Attack 1: 5 ft reach, bab+str to hit, 1d4+int damage, grab, constrict, 1d4+int constrict damage.
Attack 2: 10 ft reach, bab+int-5 to hit, 1d3+int damage, grab, constrict, 1d4+int constrict damage

You would also still require a free hand to spell combat, but could happily spellstrike through either hair.


I see some potential problems.

Having Constrict as a Class Ability might not qualify as being "creature that has the constrict special attack." I'd allow it, and I think PFS GMs should allow it, but I can imagine some referees equivocating on this point.

When you Grapple someone with your White Hair, you don't gain the Grappled Condition yourself, and you don't take any special penalties for this. But when you use the Grab ability to make a Grapple Check as part of your Natural Attack, if you elect not to become Grappled yourself, you take a -20 penalty. I am not at all sure that the WHW Class Ability spares you from that -20 penalty, and if it does, when.

I like this idea a lot, though.

I envision taking 2 levels in WHW, and 3 levels in Monk Master of Many Styles, taking Snake Fang and Combat Reflexes allowing you to make an Unarmed Attack of Opportunity whenever somebody attacks you and misses. Then you take Feral Combat Training and apply it to your Hair.

Wear Armor with Armor Spikes, so every time you make a successful Grapple Check, you do Armor Spike Damage. With your method of Gaining Constrict in addition to grab, you will be doing your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage every time you Strike with your hair, as you damage your opponent as part of your Grapple Check with Constrict, and you do Armor Spike Damage.

You get Snake Fang at Level 2 Monk. You can get Monastic Legacy as a Level 3 Monk (Still Mind is the Prerequisite.) So by Character Level 5, your unarmed strikes do 1d8, and at level 13, 1d10. But take Improved Natural Weapon, and it will go up from 1d8 to 2d6, and from 1d10 to 2d8. If this is for PFS, then you have to take 2 levels in Ranger to get INW.

What next? Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple? Sure. I'd get Dirty Trick feats and make all my opponents Blind, and take some levels in a class that gives Sneak Attack. The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC. I'm pretty sure that means Sneak Attack when you hit, Sneak Attack when you Constrict, and Sneak Attack from your Armor Spikes! So even if you get only 1 level in Rogue, or Vivisectionist, or the Precise Strike Teamwork Feat can add devastating power to your alreay devastating and numerous attacks.

Dark Archive

Angry Wiggles wrote:

Several points of note here. These interact counter-intuitively in places, so don't worry too much about them being wrong. I believe that they were also incorrect in the guide.

1. Unfortunately the White Haired Witch's White Hair ability is a separate ability from the Prehensile Hair hex, so they are separate attacks. In a home game, it would be perfectly reasonable to interpret that they "merge", and I have indeed done so for characters in home games, but that is not the case as written and cannot be used in that fashion in society play.

2. Final Embrace does indeed change the constrict to a free action that only works on targets of your size or smaller. Further, it grants you the Grab special attack, which you technically did not have prior, granting you a +4 on all grapple checks. Yet further, having the actual special attacks now, these are extended to all of this character's natural attacks and/or unarmed strikes. Additionally, it also changes the damage to be equal to that of a primary attack, assuming that a secondary attack is the one that has grabbed the opponent.

3. The Prehensile Hair states that she "can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score", while Spell Combat states that "To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components)". As Prehensile Hair counts as a "limb" but not necessarily a "hand", it likely does not qualify as a free hand for Spell Combat. I would rule against it, but you should expect table variation either way.

3. Prehensile Hair has a duration, while White Hair does not. Even if you had both, Prehensile Hair would not be always active.

In Summary, as a WHW2/Hexcrafter 4 with White Hair, Prehensile Hair and Final Embrace. You would have two separate hair attacks, that can function together in a full attack as follows:
Attack 1: 5 ft reach, bab+str to hit, 1d4+int damage, grab, constrict, 1d4+int constrict damage.
Attack 2: 10 ft reach,...

Close but not quite since you've missed a few of the DEV errata's and clarifications for these abilities.

First remember the default rule on all natural attacks that that the same limb can only be used once per round to attack with normally. Hair is a single natural weapon so you won't get 2 different attacks you'll only get one but you can use it more then once for AoO's.

Second, there is a Dev quote linked in my original build specifically referencing Prehensile hair as a valid "hand" for spellcombat purposes.

Overall the main point of the build is written around the WHW special hair ability with the prehensile hex as a backup for it and can technically be ignored. It's just there to extend the reach of the character and increase it's damage.

Also (and this will vary based on your GM) both abilities specifically state they modify how you use your existing hair not that it grants you a new ability.

white hair wrote:
At 1st level, a white-haired witch gains the ability to use her hair as a weapon.
Prehensile Hair Hex wrote:
The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb

By RAW prehensile hair simply modifies the existing White Hair (since White Hair affects all the characters hair and is always own) by increasing it's length and letting it function like a hand.

Cheap, Cheesy and OP but legal by RAW if not RAI. But since I've always said this build is not something that should be used in actual game play that's pretty much par for the course.

@Elbedor, I still highly recommend you don't do it. It's really not a fun build to play for you, your GM or your fellow players.
It's honestly boring beyond belief after you start playing it and you'll be regretting doing it by within a level of the build coming on-line.
edit: Oh and what you've described IS my defiler build, it already has final embrace as the 5th level feat.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:
Angry Wiggles wrote:
Snip
Quite a lot

Color me corrected on the Spell Combat issue. That functions precisely the opposite way that I read it. I cannot find the dev quotes within the guide. Would you be so kind as to link them here?

As for the actual Hair abilities combining, the full text of these matters drastically.

Prehensile Hair:
Prehensile Hair (Su): The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb with a Strength score equal to her Intelligence score. Her hair has reach 10 feet, and she can use it as a secondary natural attack that deals 1d3 points of damage (1d2 for a Small witch). Her hair can manipulate objects (but not weapons) as dexterously as a human hand. The hair cannot be sundered or attacked as a separate creature. Pieces cut from the witch's elongated hair shrink away to nothing. Using her hair does not harm the witch's head or neck, even if she lifts something heavy with it. The witch can manipulate her hair a number of minutes each day equal to her level; these minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be spent in 1-minute increments. A typical male witch with this hex can also manipulate his beard, moustache, or eyebrows.

White Hair:
White Hair (Su): At 1st level, a white-haired witch gains the ability to use her hair as a weapon. This functions as a primary natural attack with a reach of 5 feet. The hair deals 1d4 points of damage (1d3 for a Small witch) plus the witch’s Intelligence modifier. In addition, whenever the hair strikes a foe, the witch can attempt to grapple that foe with her hair as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity, using her Intelligence modifier in place of her Strength modifier when making the combat maneuver check. When a white-haired witch grapples a foe in this way, she does not gain the grappled condition

Emphasis mine.

They are both attacks that use the hair but:
A) One is secondary, and the other is primary.
B) One has 10 foot reach, while the other has 5 ft reach.
C) One uses intellect to hit, while the other uses strength. Both use intellect to damage, however.
D) One has a duration, while the other does not.
E) One deals 1d3 damage (1d2 small), while the other deals 1d4 damage (1d3 small)
F) One has the ability to grapple an opponent as a free action without gaining the grappled condition, while the other does not.

They seem to have very little in common, apart from being supernatural abilities and that they state that they can use their hair as a weapon. One of them even calls out separate groups of hair as it's options.

What's more, neither one of them make mention of the other. Unfortunately for this, the developer ruling is buried in a channel energy FAQ. Given that it explicitly states that things do not stack unless one of the abilities specifically states that they do so, and neither the White Hair, nor Prehensile Hair say as much. You are forced to choose between one or the other with your head, or attacking separately with head and beard, etc.

Please note:
The fact that I am disagreeing with you does not mean that I did not enjoy the guide or it's contents. My wife is currently playing a Defiler magus (based heavily off of the build in your guide) as the captain of our Skull & Shackles game and enjoying it thoroughly. What's more, we have agreed that within the confines of that game, those abilities stack.

Dark Archive

I personally would prefer to rule they don't stack since it's one of the things that reins in the craziness of the build, I'm just pointing out the RAW. As for the DEV quote it's not in the guide it's in the thread discussing it.
Link to DEV post

Back to your original question it comes down to the poorly written nature of the White Hair ability. It states you "gain the ability to use her hair as a weapon". The hair is now treated as a weapon not as a spell or supernatural ability so the FAQ entry you quoted doesn't apply anymore.

Then you go to the Prehensile hair ability which specifies that "The witch can instantly cause her hair (or even her eyebrows) to grow up to 10 feet long or to shrink to its normal length, and can manipulate her hair as if it were a limb".

Prehensile hair modifies how you can use the weapon that WHW gives you reducing it's base strength (lower damage die) but giving you more control and flexibility with it. So since it's the same weapon (white hair) it does everything it normally does unless the specific text of the prehensile feat overrules it, ie. smaller damage die, Int to hit and restriction on which hair can be used but since it doesn't specifically take away the grab related stuff or state anything the hair can previously do is removed you get to keep it all.
Broken and probably not RAI but I only ever post in RAW so legality is all I deal with.


This is a PFS Tengu like what I mentioned that uses White Haired Witch to gain the prerequisites for the Final Embrace Feat.

Strength of 14, Dex 16. Tengu with the Claws Racial Trait.

Level 1 Ranger 1: Freebooter Archetype, Weapon Focus Claws
2R1Monk1: Master of Many Styles Archetype, Unarmed Damage 1d6, Snake Style
3R1M2: Evasion, Snake Fang, Combat Reflexes
4R1M2Fighter1: Feral Combat Training, Claws
5R1M3F1: Monastic Legacy, Maneuver Training, unarmed damage 1d8
6R2M3F1: Improved Natural Weapon, Claw damage 2d6
7R2M3F1Alchemist1: Mutagens, Extracts, Improved Grapple
8R2M3F1A1Witch1: White Hair Attack
9R2M3F1A1W2: Constrict, Final Embrace
10R2M3F1A2W2: King Crab Tumor Familiar
11R2M3F1A2W2Cavalier1: Order of the Penitent, Potion Glutton, Greater Grapple
12R2M3F1A2W2C2: Expert Captor

Liberty's Edge

Scott Wilhelm wrote:


Wear Armor with Armor Spikes, so every time you make a successful Grapple Check, you do Armor Spike Damage. With your method of Gaining Constrict in addition to grab, you will be doing your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage every time you Strike with your hair, as you damage your opponent as part of your Grapple Check with Constrict, and you do Armor Spike Damage.
Final Embrace (Combat) wrote:

Benefit: You gain the constrict and grab special attacks. Your constrict attack deals damage equal to your unarmed strike or primary natural weapon melee attack. Further, you can grab and constrict opponents up to your size.

Armor spikea are a martial, manufactured, weapon. They aren't eligible for constrict damage.

Liberty's Edge

Mathwei ap Niall wrote:

I personally would prefer to rule they don't stack since it's one of the things that reins in the craziness of the build, I'm just pointing out the RAW. As for the DEV quote it's not in the guide it's in the thread discussing it.

Link to DEV post

That dev quote don't say that the hairs count as a free hand for spell combat.

It say that they count as hands for making an attack, but they don't satisfy the free hand requirement for spell combat.


Diego Rossi wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:


Wear Armor with Armor Spikes, so every time you make a successful Grapple Check, you do Armor Spike Damage. With your method of Gaining Constrict in addition to grab, you will be doing your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage every time you Strike with your hair, as you damage your opponent as part of your Grapple Check with Constrict, and you do Armor Spike Damage.
Final Embrace (Combat) wrote:

Benefit: You gain the constrict and grab special attacks. Your constrict attack deals damage equal to your unarmed strike or primary natural weapon melee attack. Further, you can grab and constrict opponents up to your size.

Armor spikea are a martial, manufactured, weapon. They aren't eligible for constrict damage.

Armor Spikes are a separate source of damage. They inflict damage with every successful Grapple attack.


At level 1, Dia will have 3 melee attacks: 2 Claws and 1 bite. Her attack routine will do 1d4/1d4/1d3 for an average of 7 points of damage/round. That’s equal to a Greatsword, but better because it’s 3 attacks, so you get your Strength bonus 3 times. Her Strength will be 14, so with a Strength Mod of +2, that means +6 damage instead of +3 if she were using a greatsword.

It is also worse if you are up against a monster with DR, because the damage reduction will count 3 times, too. She could use a greatsword, of course. She could use a shield and choose between 1 Claw and 1 Bite or 1 Long Sword. Boosting your AC is not very sexy, but sometimes it’s the way to keep your character alive. And of course, the way for a character to deal with diverse situations is diverse methods: keeping and alchemal silver mace and a cold iron longsword on her belt. So there are piercing, slashing, and bludgeoning, silver and iron weapons, the right tool for the right job.

Still another option is she could use a longbow and just use her natural weapons in melee. She wouldn’t have to drop her bow in melee.

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9qda wrote:

] Two-Handed Weapons: What kind of action is it to remove your hand from a two-handed weapon or re-grab it with both hands?

Both are free actions. For example, a wizard wielding a quarterstaff can let go of the weapon with one hand as a free action, cast a spell as a standard action, and grasp the weapon again with that hand as a free action; this means the wizard is still able to make attacks of opportunity with the weapon (which requires using two hands).
As with any free action, the GM may decide a reasonable limit to how many times per round you can release and re-grasp the weapon (one release and re-grasp per round is fair).

So, while she couldn't SHOOT her bow and use her claws in melee, there's no reason why she can't use her claws in melee while HOLDING her bow.

Also, longbows are very versatile weapons, too. Ammunition is far in a way the most economical use for adamantine weapon blanch, and arrows come with all kinds of trick heads.

Liberty's Edge

Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Diego Rossi wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:


Wear Armor with Armor Spikes, so every time you make a successful Grapple Check, you do Armor Spike Damage. With your method of Gaining Constrict in addition to grab, you will be doing your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage every time you Strike with your hair, as you damage your opponent as part of your Grapple Check with Constrict, and you do Armor Spike Damage.
Final Embrace (Combat) wrote:

Benefit: You gain the constrict and grab special attacks. Your constrict attack deals damage equal to your unarmed strike or primary natural weapon melee attack. Further, you can grab and constrict opponents up to your size.

Armor spikea are a martial, manufactured, weapon. They aren't eligible for constrict damage.

Armor Spikes are a separate source of damage. They inflict damage with every successful Grapple attack.

PRD Grapple rules wrote:
Damage: You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.

The entry in the Armor spikes don't give any indication of how it work, the entry in the grapple rules give a clear indication that the damage from armor spikes is one of the the options when you decide to deal damage while grappling, not some form of additional damage that you get for free.

The phrase "Armor Spikes: You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack." seem simply to be a unclear way to say that the armor spikes allow you to do more damage that with a standard unarmed attack when grappling.


Diego Rossi wrote:
The entry in the Armor spikes don't give any indication of how it work

Sure it does

Core Rulebook, Armor, Armor Spikes wrote:
You can have spikes added to your armor, which allow you to deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case.

Here’s a link to it for your convenience.

paizo’s prd, Core Rulebook

That's clear.

When you are using armor spikes, and you make a successful grapple check, you do Armor Spike damage. If you are not proficient in the martial weapon Armor Spikes, you suffer a -4 penalty when you try to use them while grappling or while using them some other way, because you can also use them as a light piercing martial weapon. Presumably, if you are wearing armor with spikes you are not proficient with, you can Grapple with no penalty if you resolve not to do any armor spike damage.

It also seems to be true that when you are Grappling to inflict damage you have the option inflicting unarmed strike damage, natural weapon damage, or armor spike damage, but that is a different thing.

The rules do clearly say that

When you make a successful Grapple check to initiate a grapple, you have made a successful grapple attack.

The rules (description of Armor Spikes) clearly say that you do extra piercing damage whenever you make a successful grapple attack. How much damage? Well, there’s a description of Armor Spikes on the weapon list: 1d6, plus bonuses, of course.

So there you go. That’s what the rules say.


What happens if your using hair from your head and hair from your armpits? Would you be ok with prehensile hair and white witch being used in conjunction?


Prehensile hair, White Hair, and the level 3 spell Strangling hair don't stack, exactly. Best I can tell, you can have all of them. You can use them to grapple 1 opponent each. Mulitple grapplers on a single opponent sort of stack. 1 Grappler, or set of hair in this case will be the primary grappler, the other 2 would be aiding another.


I'm going to continue a bit on how the character build I posted higher up on this thread works. It's unusual to break up the highlights of a character build in multiple posts, but this is an unusually complicated build. Even the highlights can go on for several pages.

At level 2, she will be able to add a Monk Unarmed Strike to the attack routine. She won’t impose a -5 on her natural attacks because

Core Rulebook, Monk, Unarmed Strikes wrote:
A monk unarmed strike counts as both a manufactured and a natural weapon for the purposes of spells and effects manufactured and natural weapons.

So for the purposes of her attack routine, her monk unarmed strike counts as just another natural weapon, and will not impose a -5 on the claws or bite. Her attack routine will look something like this Bite 1d3+2/2claws 1d4+2/unarmed strike 1d6+2 for DPR of 18.5, respectable for level 2.

At Level 3, Snake Fang is an attack of opportunity trigger, hair trigger, really. Every time someone attacks her and misses, she gets an attack of opportunity. With a Dexterity of 16, that is a potential of 4 extra attacks/round + an extra unarmed strike as an immediate action, so the DPR jumps to Bite 1d3+2/2claws1d4+2/6 unarmed strikes 1d6+2=46

Feral Combat Training at level 4 lets the claws do unarmed combat damage, from 1d4 to 1d6, raising the DPR by +2

Monastic Legacy at level 5 increases the Monk Unarmed Strike Damage and the Claw damage by +1, from 1d6 to 1d8, increasing the DPR by +6, now at 52

At Level 6, the level in Ranger lets her take Improved Natural Weapon Claws, raising the claw damage from 1d8 to 2d6. In addition, Feral Combat Training lets her make her attacks of opportunity with her claws instead of with the unarmed strike, which didn’t matter before now because they did the same amount of damage. Now the attack routine is Bite 1d3+2/6claws2d6+2/unarmed strike 1d8+2 for a DPR of 64.5.


This is the final part of the PFS character build walkthrough.

At Level 7, the strength mutagen probably will be more damaging then the dex, but it’s a tough call. This is, in part, an Attack of Opportunity build, so higher Dex means more attacks, and that might be better than more damage/attack, and that might change as the character develops.

At Level 9, the White Hair Constrict ability is the prerequisite for the Final Embrace Feat, making her “a creature with the Constrict Special Attack.” Now she has Grab and Constrict on all her natural attacks. She will wear Armor Spikes, so that every one of her successful attacks to initiate a Grapple, and every successful Grapple Attack will do Armor Spike Damage. Her Constrict Damage will be equal to her claw damage, 2d6+2.

Improved Grapple and Great Grapple will increase her chances of scoring with Grab, Constrict, and Spikes, but there is another reason, a whole other attack routine option she can use. Greater Grapple lets her maintain a Grapple as a Move Action, and the Expert Captor Cavalier Order Ability lets her Tie Up her Grappled, not Pinned opponent without taking the -10 you normally do. That means when she starts her round adjacent to you, she can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action then Tie you Up as a Move Action. The Potion Glutton Feat will allow her to take her Alchemal Extract of True Strike (any potable) as a Swift Action, So on round 1, she’ll use True Strike and close with you, and on Round 2 she will Initiate a Grapple at an extra +20, pop an Extract of True Strike as a Swift Action, then Tie you Up with +20 again as a Move Action. Pretty cool.

One option for this character is if she acquired a Wand of Monstrous Physique. She could turn into a 4 armed Sahaugin and gain 4 Claw attacks instead of 2. She also might take the Feral Mutagen Discovery, and used Alter Self to turn into a Kasatha. Kasatha don’t have claw attacks for their 4 arms nor do they have bite attacks, but Feral Mutagen would give them both.

If this character didn’t have a level 12 limit (PFS), she would have taken her Alchemist levels in the Vivisectionist Archetype, giving her Sneak Attack instead of Bombs. Over the next few levels, she would take the Quick, Great, dirty trick feats. By making opponents Blind, she would regularly secure her Sneak Attack damage which would stack upon both the initial natural weapon hits and the subsequent grapples, either for the Armor Spikes or for the Constrict, but not, I believe for both.

If she were fighting something like the Tarn Linnorm, she would make it deaf, not blind. She would use an Eversmoking Bottle and cast Negate Aroma on herself. She would navigate with the Bloodhound and/or Echolocation Spell, which she would acquire in Wand form, or she would use a Blind Man’s Fold. The Grab and Constrict wouldn’t work on a Tarn Linnorm, but the Sneak Attack would.

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