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So it has come to my attention that variant channeling has a lot of problems and I'm wondering how we should properly handle these issues.
One of the issues that crops up is that the variant channel seems to be specific to a deity's portfolios (not domains) that they have access to.
However, this leads to two interesting problems that have no clear answer (in my opinion).
Firstly, does a cleric who does not choose a deity but chooses two general domains have any access to variant channeling? How is it decided what they should have access to if they do? They do not have a deity, and therefore can have no access to any portfolios through such a non-existent deity.
Secondly, what of Oracles? Oracles do not have a specific deity by virtue of their class (at least so far as receiving their powers is concerned). Do they have access at all?
A character who has the channel energy ability from a class other than cleric may use these variant channeling rules if the class's abilities are tied to serving a deity. For example, paladins can select alternative channeling abilities if they serve a deity, as can oracles with the Life mystery (as they serve many deities), but necromancer wizards cannot.
These texts seems to indicate they do, but it still clashes with the earlier text of the Variant Channel ability. (Also, can someone confirm or refute whether this portion of the text is a recent addition? I do not recall it being there previously the last time I looked at the Variant Channel rules.) It clashes because they do not have a specific deity to gain access to a portfolio from. Do they get access to any deities portfolio that is associated with their mystery?
Please also see this thread and thread for some discussion as well.
Thank you.
Bump
I know there is errata on Variant Channeling (or maybe it's just some of them). Maybe your answer will lie there.
Do you happen to have a link to this errata information?
These are the only relevant errata I found:
Page 30—In the Monsters variant channeling, in the
Harm section, change “bonus to attack and damage”
to “penalty on attack and damage rolls”.
• Page 31—In the Undeath variant channeling, exchange
the text of the Heal and Harm sections.
That solves the weirdness of the Undeath Domain, but the other problems remain.
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I second Claxon's proposal to seek some clarity regarding Variant Channeling. Here is a partial list of Variant Channel's problematic area:
* The issues Claxon raises above about Portfolio access.
* Many Portfolios were unavailable with published Paizo deities. The Devs are seemingly aware of this issue, because the recent Ossirian deities seem to be carefully chosen with Portfolio diversity in mind. E.g. Two new deities, Ra and Horus, are neutrally aligned and have the Rulership portfolio. Others are just as good. The hangover cleric build never had it better.
* Some variant channels have some internal contradictions. These are mostly minor, and there are mostly FAQs. Please reply with a few of the most awkward ones.
* Variant Channel seems to be very specific to either positive or negative energy used either to harm or heal. E.g. A versatile channeler who does negative energy variant channel (Rulership) to harm can channel positive energy to harm undead, but it will not be the variant version. This begs the question, "Is it possible to take two variant channels? E.g. How about one which applies to healing via negative energy and another which applies to harming via positive energy." Variant Channeling is an archetype.
P.s. I've either played or GMed for about a half dozen variant-channel PCs. The hard topics mostly have not come up, because players mostly avoid options that are likely to have a lot of table variance.
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I noticed major problems with these awhile ago, but was burnt out with trying to get Errata dealt with that I didn't bother.
People suggested Undeath MAY be fixed, at least partially, though I really felt like the "general" rules re: Pos/Neg/Heal/Harm
should better cover ALL cases/combinations of Pos/Neg/Heal/Harm and different targets' vulnerabilities to those...
And at least the PRD for Undeath seems to be majorly screwed up (but that may just be PRD issue not up to date w/ latest printing?)
Problems with Variant Channel
Is the Cleric supposed to have the option of not doing ANY HP curing/damage,
but just the auxiliary effect (if they allow it/fail the save)?
Some of them seem odd to combine with damage, e.g. Justice/Law Harm = Damage + Zone of Truth.
If you happen to kill them before they can tell the truth, that seems rather inconvenient.
The following rule seems odd in combo with many of the actual effects:
"Creatures that would normally ignore the effect of a particular channel (such as undead with respect to a positive energy channel used to heal) ignore the variant effect of that channel."
So if the effect is raising the light level, creating difficult terrain around the targets, giving them an AC bonus,
then targets not affected by the energy type (e.g. undead/dhampir for positive/heal) IGNORE that? (light level, AC bonus, etc)???
Perhaps better to just say they are not targetted by the Channel effect, leaving it open for secondary repurcussions?
This impacts Cities' Harm (difficult terrain), Darkness harm (darkness), Disease Harm (contagion can subsequently affect any target whether or not directly subject to channel?), Sun Heal (light), Secrets Harm (Sense Motive) and the ones granting the targets AC bonus/penalty (i.e. a stat that other creatures may interact with).
Earth Harm says it targets squares, even though channel doesn't normally affect objects...
Destruction's Harm "Harm—Unattended objects take full channel damage (not half)."
First, it's not clearly altering the rule re: targets of Channel to include objects.
Is the "full damage" referring only to negating the Variant Channel's halving,
to Objects taking half damage from Energy Damage (which I believe Channel Energy is), or both?
What about Hardness? Another Channel Variant(Forge) has object healing, should this be
the "reverse" and thus not be subject to Hardness (in order to apply same damage as Forge applies healing)?
Envy's Harm "Harm—Creatures must attempt a steal combat maneuver on their next turn against an adjacent enemy."
Does that mean that nothing happens if they don't have an 'adjacent' enemy when you channel?
Or does it mean that they will seek out an enemy and move adjacent to them to try to Steal from them?
Or even if they will not seek out to do that,
if they "happen to" move adjacent to an enemy next turn, they would be forced to try to Steal from them?
Unclear. In game play, should the effect be kept secret until they move adjacent to an enemy?
Forge Heal: Doesnt' clearly change rule re: eligible targets of channel to include objects.
Farming Harm doesn't have any duration for the Fatigue effect.
Hunting Heal: AFAIK, Survival checks usually tend to take place over longer periods of time, if the target
is hiding within 1 round of movement then Survival:Tracking isn't usually needed... Is this meant to cover
"one Survival check" even if it takes place over a longer period of time?
Magic: bonus to "caster level checks and concentration checks until the end of your next turn"
Does this change CL-variable efffects of spells that have already previously been cast? Or affect their dispel checks etc?
Or vice versa, if a spell is cast during this 1 round, will it's CL-variable effects change AFER the channel effect ends?
Madness Heal has no duration for the bonus to Saves.
Monsters Harm has no duration for the penalty to att/dmg.
Nightmares Harm has no duration for the penalty to Concentration and Saves.
Pain Harm has no duration for the Nauseated condition in addition to the Sickened Condition (which has a duration)
Ocean/Sea/Water Heal: Why Climb? A bonus to the diving usage of Acrobatics maybe makes sense. Climb?
Secrets: Heal: Similar to Magic, although how does a bonus to "their divination spells" work? What if they were already cast before the channel, but allow for ongoing saves f.e. vs different targets thruout the duration?
Harm: "Creatures using Sense Motive against affected creatures... gain a channel bonus on Sense Motive checks."
This runs into the " Creatures that normally ignore the effect of a particular channel (such as undead re: a positive energy channel used to heal) ignore the variant effect of that channel." wording issue.
That means that undead (not harmed by negative energy) woud NOT gain said channel bonus on Sense Motive.
Intended, or should the channel bonus instead just reduce the DC any Sense Motive would need to beat?
Self Perfection Heal: "Creatures may ignore one temporary condition of their choice "
What if they are unconscious or confused, etc?
If this is a conscious choice, do they need full consciousness to make the choice?
Sun Heal: no duration
Undeath Harm: "Harm—The healing effect is enhanced for undead creatures and those with negative energy affinity. "
Not sure what's going on, and how this works with the rule:
"A variant channeling either modifies positive channeled energy when used to heal or modifies negative energy when used to harm."
That rule means Variant Channel will only ever affect Living/PositiveEnergy Attuned Creatures, either Healing or Harming,
because Undead/Neg Energy Attuned creatures are not healed by positive energy, nor harmed by negative energy.
Undeath's Harm ability is supposed to apply to healing undead.
But it only kicks in when you are channeling Negative to Harm, i.e. harm living, not heal undead.
Meanwhile the "Heal" version does absolutey nothing? OK.
Really, the whole rule about Heal(+)/Harm(-) is just confusing and weird, especially that Undead are never affected...
Even if the Caster themself is Undead and wanting to Heal Undead allies. Kind of... weird, especially with Undeath Variant.
Weather Harm: You can change 1/2 the channel damage to Sonic or Electric.
Is this 1/2 of the already halved Variant damage?
Re: the rule 'creatures that normally ignore effect of a channel energy type'
means that undead/dhampir would be immune to this sonic/elemental (if Pos Channel to Harm)?
Or should this Sonic/Electric damage work like normal Sonic/ELectric (and also harm living beings)?
Any chance these might be Errata'd soon (possibly via FAQ)?
I've had a few of these questions myself. We might be able to clear up a few of them ourselves.
General case first. My understanding is if you channel positive to harm you get the normal channel effect as a standard cleric. Same goes for Channeling Negative targeted on undead. It's like you don't have this alternate feature vs them. The exception to that would be the Undead variant which says undead healing is enhanced.
Remember that specific trumps general. Since that variant says it has an enhanced effect vs undead, it apparently does.
Farming-Harm: I'd assume they are fatigued until they eat. The Horseman Famine just touched them and they are famished despite eating lunch.
Magic-Heal: Caster level checks are rolls to overcome SR, activating scrolls above your caster level and dispelling (maybe one or two more). They do not affect duration of spells or other effcts.
Self Perfection-Heal: I'd say sure. confused doesn't take away your ability to make decisions/actions, it instead alters perception/clouds judgement. You think you are striking a foe, or a friend is suddenly a monster, etc. Unconscious might be stretching it, but adrenaline can overcome extreme exhaustion for limited periods of time (that's what I see this ability as).
Sun-Heal. I'd assume the light level increase lasts one minute just like the Darkness Harm does.
Weather-Harm half of your reduced damage would be sonic or electricity (so effectively 1/4 of a normal clerics channel damage would become elemental). If Positive channeling to harm you do normal Cleric damage as that isn't affected by variant channeling.
My question is about Envy-Harm. Do the targets have to attempt to steal from THEIR enemies or YOUR enemies, i.e. are they covetous of what your party has or what their buddy has?
Usually when a power refers to an ally it is referring to your ally (any enemy strikes an ally, "x" happens). I would assume "an enemy" would also be referring to your enemy. Otherwise I would expect it to say the target must steal from its enemy, i.e. your ally.
The challenge I see is that either way could work, but your buddies might not think you are an ally anymore if you harm them and then show them all the loot you've been hoarding. "Hey gimme that you scoundrel." =)