Does Death's Embrace work with channeling scourge

[PowerOverwhelming]

There's a player in one of my games that takes 1 level of inquisitor, takes the channeling scourge feat and then targets living with his channel negative energy to deal damage.

He is arguing that the death's domain ability Death's Embrace gives him the ability to include himself in the effect, targeted as a living creature, and then heal from it. He also argues the effect stacks with all his damage die because of channeling scourge.

Is this rules as written?

[dragonhunterq]

Quote:

Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living)

Quote:

Death's Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.

You channel negative energy to either harm living or heal undead, you cannot do both at the same time. Essentially deaths embrace lets you treat yourself as undead for the purposes of channeled negative energy.

[PowerOverwhelming]

He is arguing that this sentences lets him include himself in the effect, even if the channel targets living.

Channel Energy wrote:

"A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect."

Otherwise all you need is 1 level of Cleric and you get a few domains, an inquisition and the ability to channel to deal damage and heal yourself. Then you get the full inquisitor suite of toys as well.

Frankly that seems absurdly OP to me. I think this may have a FAQ somewhere that I am just not seeing?

[dragonhunterq]

He is right in that he can include himself, he is wrong in the effect that will have.

Channel Energy either heals or harms, not both at the same time.

It either targets living or undead, not both at the same time.

Both of those are intrinsic to channel energy. That's why the qualifying text I bolded exists. There is no way I know of that allows you to both heal and harm at the same time.

Deaths Embrace probably should have additional text explicitly stating that you are unharmed if the channel negative energy targets the living, but that is certainly the intent. If the channel is set to harm the living the Inquisitor can certainly target himself, but nothing happens - he will simply be unaffected by it.

To be absolutely honest I can see an argument that, as it doesn't explicitly state it, your Inquisitor is still wounded by negative energy channeled to harm the living. Not an argument I endorse, but it is there.

[PowerOverwhelming]

Frankly I feel the same way. If it's dealing damage to living it isnt healing undead. It's pretty clear the way the ability is meant to function. But I know a few people in PFS that are pretty badly misunderstanding this rules hole, so...

Their side of all this is that he targets himself as a living target to deal damage (including himself in his own effect), and then death's embrace converts it to healing. He says he's targetted as living. My reading is he's targeted as undead, and that seems the clear RAI here given the title of the ability.

Maybe this should be FAQ'd? It all seems dependent on whether you read the first and 2nd sentences separately or as one block.

[Skelter]

What a coincidence, as I the great and powerful Skelter Moon Asahara (you may address me as "Skelter, The Risen") have quite the similar build to your fellow "player". Tho, I am not quite experienced enough to embrace the full power of the domain of my Pallid Princess, I hope that she will bless my endless hunger with this most holy of abilities before long.

The dilemma is you are placing your emphasis on the wrong sentence in the domain description

Death Domain wrote:

Death's Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.

This means that when I gain this power and I am targeting living creatures with the intent to HARM, i heal damage from the effect INSTEAD of being damaged.

ALSO, if channeling with the intent to HEAL undead I am treated as though undead and thus gain the benefit of said healing.

Isn't it sublime? the limitless power? AHAHA AHAHAHAHA!none of the fools who follow these supposedly "good" deities with their vile prejudice against my Pallid Princess have such power.

translation: Is this how most negative energy situations work? no. it is something UNIQUE to Death Domain. is it broken as ****? of course it is. but it is also RAW as ****. Enjoy.

Now that you've seen the truth. See through the lie that all of undeath is inherently evil, even an abomination against all that is good. Undead are people too...well sometimes.

Believe in your hunger. Serve your hunger. And learn what your hunger can be doing for you. Visit the Church of Urgathoa today! Bluff: 1d20 + 22 ⇒ (16) + 22 = 38Yes, this is his actual bluff bonus at level 6. Good ol' Skelter is a delusional sociopath determined to put a stop to the racial profiling and negative stigma of undead within the context of the campaign setting that says they are always evil. the bluff roll is for his Church of Urgathoa sales pitch only. the stuff about death domain is legit.

[PowerOverwhelming]

I'd think the moment you heal from the effect instead of dealing damage from it, channeling scourge stops stacking. Because it's no longer dealing damage, it's healing it.

[Skelter]

when channeling to heal undead, Skelter would only have his one dice from Cleric, yes. but when channeling to harm He is using full dice. the death domain power then changes that damage to healing only for himself while those around him get damaged.

Channeling Scourge wrote:

...Benefit: When you use channel energy to deal damage, your inquisitor levels count as cleric levels for determining the number of damage dice and the saving throw DC.

he is still using his channel with the purpose of dealing damage when he does this, it just happens to heal him what damage he would have received instead.

[dragonhunterq]

Skelter you really cannot ignore the second sentence in the Deaths Embrace ability. This specifically points out that you only heal when used to target undead.

Abilities are always read as a whole. you can't just separate out the bits that are convenient.

[Skelter]

Do you see the word "only" anywhere in there? because I sure don't. I'm not ignoring the second line. I'm reading both sentences. neither exclude the other. You get it both ways.

Now one might argue that it is implied. but that is not how RAW works. you can argue Rules as Intended till the last mortal dies and Groetus destroys the world, but for Pathfinder Society (which is the setting in which Skelter is playing) RAW is all that matters. He is not the first to use Death's Embrace this way, he certainly won't be the last. because that is how the rule is written.

[PowerOverwhelming]

IMO this is why the FAQ is needed. Is the second sentence meant as a separate statement or a clarification of the first?