I have a question about Advanced Mutagen (Su).
I want to take the Grand Mutagen Advanced Mutagen do I have to take Greater First?
Grand Mutagen (Ex): This mutagen is identical to the alchemist discovery of the same name and counts as that discovery for the purpose of qualifying for other discoveries or advanced mutagens. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus master chymist levels) of at least 16 and must have the feral mutagen discovery or advanced mutagen to select this ability.
You'll notice it states that "This mutagen is identical to the alchemist discovery of the same name and counts as that discovery for the purpose of qualifying for other discoveries or advanced mutagens." Meaning i would need to take Greater Mutagen before taking this but it also says right after it "The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus master chymist levels) of at least 16 and must have the feral mutagen discovery or advanced mutagen to select this ability." Which means I dont need Greater Mutagen to take this.
Which is it?
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Some basic mechanic advice what would be better to combo off each other?
Draconic Mutagen (Su) + Grand Mutagen (Ex)
Or
Draconic Mutagen (Su) + Growth Mutagen (Su)
Draconic Mutagen (Su): When the chymist assumes her mutagenic form, she gains dragon-like features— scaly skin, reptilian eyes, and so on, resembling a halfdragon. The chymist chooses one dragon type (see the draconic bloodline) when selecting this advanced mutagen; once selected, this choice cannot be changed and determines her draconic resistances and breath weapon type. The chymist gains resistance 20 to the dragon’s energy type. The chymist’s breath weapon deals 8d8 points of energy damage (Reflex half, DC 10 + the chymist’s class level + the chymist’s Intelligence modifier); she may use her breath weapon once per transformation into her mutagenic form. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus master chymist levels) of at least 16, must know the form of the dragon I extract, and must have the feral mutagen discovery or advanced mutagen to select this ability.
Growth Mutagen (Su): When the chymist assumes her mutagenic form, she increases one size category, as if under the effects of an enlarge person spell. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus chymist level) of at least 16 and must know the enlarge person, giant form I, or polymorph extract to select this ability.
before grand you need greater. The prereqs for it are still the same, but you replace the part of needing alchemist levels with your combined level.
I think grand and growth would be the better way to go than draconic. All it gives is a breath weapon once. 1 use of 8d8. Let the arcane caster deal with the AOE and you buff up what you're good at. more damage to a target.
Drop Master Chymist at level 3, take Greater and Grand Mutagen as normal discoveries. Draconic and Growth are both lackluster. All you really want out of Master Chymist is the first +2 from Brutality, Mutate 2x /day (+1 once from your Mutagen!), and Furious Mutagen.
Giving up on maxing out your access to 6th level extracts for the rest just isn't worth it.
I see where you are going there but as for the character I have built. Im playing one of the first Witchers. Before they got it right before they had the skills to properly fine tune their techniques in creating a mutant monster slayer.
It is a level 30 campaign where I will be going 8 levels into Alchemy (Ragechemist), 10 Levels into Master Chymist, and 12 Levels into Fighter (Lore Warden). Its a fast pace campaign so it will not take as long as other.
Off topic for the thread but I would strongly discourage Ragechemist. Int damage in and of itself is bad enough for an alchemist and the distinct possibility of unconsciousness makes that archetype a "no-go" for me.
Off topic for the thread but I would strongly discourage Ragechemist. Int damage in and of itself is bad enough for an alchemist and the distinct possibility of unconsciousness makes that archetype a "no-go" for me.
Currently I rolled and 18 on int and buffed it for 20. So I did not see it as a problem considering it gives me an extra 2 str. By level 20 when i would mutate it will give me +30 STR because my base str is also 20.
Off topic for the thread but I would strongly discourage Ragechemist. Int damage in and of itself is bad enough for an alchemist and the distinct possibility of unconsciousness makes that archetype a "no-go" for me.Currently I rolled and 18 on int and buffed it for 20. So I did not see it as a problem considering it gives me an extra 2 str. By level 20 when i would mutate it will give me +30 STR because my base str is also 20.
So a will save every round you take damage to avoid a -4 to Int (and your will saves) so you can have a +30 instead of +28? Just doesn't seem worth it to me.
So a will save every round you take damage to avoid a -4 to Int (and your will saves) so you can have a +30 instead of +28? Just doesn't seem worth it to me.
Well my second choice is being a Trap Breaker. Because I am playing a Witcher and hunt monsters trap breaker seems a mighty fine archetype.
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no listen to little dwarf man.
me am ragechemist/wild rager.
me am strongest.
unconscious am save other little mans from angry me.
seriously though- the ragechemists saves aren't that bad... you have a good will save, if you have even a little Wis, and before long a resist cloak, you won't fail it very often. and barbarian (maybe instead of fighter) stacks really well with it both in terms of benefits and theme (and the bonus to will from rage will help too). i like wild rager/ragechemist combo because its devastatingly effective but everytime you fail a ragechemist save you take penalties to your wild rager saves, meaning that its only a matter of time before the confusion sets in, lol (if you do that, make sure one of your companions has some kind of sleep or hold person ready- you'll almost certainly fail the will save, lol)
You might want to look at the Internal Alchemist archetype; immunity to disease, Uncanny dodge, and access to a handful of combat maneuver based feats in place of discoveries if you want them. Screams Witcher to me, in a way that Throw Anything doesn't really. (Witcher bombs are for utility, not damage!)
Oh wow you are right! That is one crazy archetype. I dismissed it because it read the first class feat wrong. Where it says breath mastery i thought it says breath weapon.
seriously though- the ragechemists saves aren't that bad... you have a good will save, if you have even a little Wis, and before long a resist cloak, you won't fail it very often. and barbarian (maybe instead of fighter) stacks really well with it both in terms of benefits and theme (and the bonus to will from rage will help too). i like wild rager/ragechemist combo because its devastatingly effective but everytime you fail a ragechemist save you take penalties to your wild rager saves, meaning that its only a matter of time before the confusion sets in, lol (if you do that, make sure one of your companions has some kind of sleep or hold person ready- you'll almost certainly fail the will save, lol)
I see where you are going with that and it makes tons of sense because you have access to iron will and improved iron will and because of mythic feats there is the mythic of both of those feats. But sadly I only have 11 in Wis because it was a dump like Lesspopmorefizz mentioned.
I believe the Internal archetype works a lot better for the aspect of the RP i have in stored and for the mechanics the class has in general.
Back to the actual question of this post which two do you all think work better with each other. If I take Grand Mutagen i have to take greater which will take up one slot.
I was thinking of taking
Here at Max Master Chymist are the Advanced Mutagens I would Take.
1st Option :
Dual Mind
Restoring Change
Greater Mutagen
Draconic Mutagen
Growth Mutagen
Or Option 2:
Dual Mind
Restoring Change
Greater Mutagen
Grand Mutagen
Growth Mutagen
Or final option:
Dual Mind
Restoring Change
Greater Mutagen
Grand Mutagen
Draconic Mutagen
Which of the three sounds best? Which of the three would you like to play or have along in a party?
Here are what they are so you don't have to look them up.
Grand Mutagen (Ex): This mutagen is identical to the alchemist discovery of the same name and counts as that discovery for the purpose of qualifying for other discoveries or advanced mutagens. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus master chymist levels) of at least 16 and must have the feral mutagen discovery or advanced mutagen to select this ability.
Greater Mutagen (Ex): This mutagen is identical to the alchemist discovery of the same name and counts as that discovery for the purpose of qualifying for other discoveries or advanced mutagens. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus chymist level) of at least 12 and must have the feral mutagen discovery or advanced mutagen to select this ability.
Restoring Change (Su): When the chymist assumes her mutagenic form or returns to her normal form from her mutagenic form, she heals a number of hit points equal to 1d8 + her character level.
Dual Mind (Ex): The chymist’s alter ego gives her a +2 bonus on Will saving throws in her normal and mutagenic forms. If she is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC; if she succeeds, she is free of the effect (as if she had made her original save) and immediately changes to her mutagenic form or back to her normal form. If she has no more uses of the mutate ability remaining for the day, she cannot use dual mind. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus master chymist levels) of at least 10 to select this ability.
Draconic Mutagen (Su): When the chymist assumes her mutagenic form, she gains dragon-like features— scaly skin, reptilian eyes, and so on, resembling a halfdragon. The chymist chooses one dragon type (see the draconic bloodline) when selecting this advanced mutagen; once selected, this choice cannot be changed and determines her draconic resistances and breath weapon type. The chymist gains resistance 20 to the dragon’s energy type. The chymist’s breath weapon deals 8d8 points of energy damage (Reflex half, DC 10 + the chymist’s class level + the chymist’s Intelligence modifier); she may use her breath weapon once per transformation into her mutagenic form. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus master chymist levels) of at least 16, must know the form of the dragon I extract, and must have the feral mutagen discovery or advanced mutagen to select this ability.
Growth Mutagen (Su): When the chymist assumes her mutagenic form, she increases one size category, as if under the effects of an enlarge person spell. The character must have an effective alchemist level (alchemist level plus chymist level) of at least 16 and must know the enlarge person, giant form I, or polymorph extract to select this ability.
i'm an idiot.... i do that all the time- for some reason in my head alchemists have bard saves instead of ranger saves.
i'm an idiot.... i do that all the time- for some reason in my head alchemists have bard saves instead of ranger saves.
Plus (at 6th level) if you fail the save, in addition to the minus four penalty to intelligence, you also take a minus four to will saves. That's every time you fail.
Plus (at 6th level) if you fail the save, in addition to the minus four penalty to intelligence, you also take a minus four to will saves. That's every time you fail.
that's my favorite part... it makes the save to avoid confusion (from the wild rager archetype) more exciting :)