[ACG] Brawler - Shield Champion

[Perpetr8r]

Alright so I am loving the idea of the Shield Champion but something stuck out to me and I immediately came to find a answer but I cannot, so I am gonna ask here.

At 11th level, a shield champion gains Shield Master as a bonus feat. She must meet all prerequisites before selecting that feat.
Emphasis mine.

Does this mean I would need to use my bonus feats and other feats to gain Improved Shield Bash and Shield Slam before I could even use this feat?

This line of text makes this a very annoying archetype to choose only because now it comes with a significant (Two feats) feat tax.

[Vaellen]

Yes.

[Chess Pwn]

Or you ignore that feat and not take the tax. and miss out on it.

[Rushley son of Halum]

You'll likely take shield bash and slam anyway, that's not the big issue.

The bigger problem is that 2 weapon fighting is a pre req for shield slam. Flurry doesn't count as 2 weapon fighting for pre reqs but at the same time you'd get no benefit from the feat itself.

People throw around the term feat tax a lot. But I think this is pretty much the definition. A feat that is of no benefit and serves no purpose other than to get access to other feats. Other "feat tax" things can at least be used by the class combat expertise for example. In this case it is simply impossible for a brawler to gain any benefit from 2 weapon fighting.

This urgently needs to be faq'd and fixed.

[Perpetr8r]

Rushley son of Halum wrote:

You'll likely take shield bash and slam anyway, that's not the big issue.

The bigger problem is that 2 weapon fighting is a pre req for shield slam. Flurry doesn't count as 2 weapon fighting for pre reqs but at the same time you'd get no benefit from the feat itself.

People throw around the term feat tax a lot. But I think this is pretty much the definition. A feat that is of no benefit and serves no purpose other than to get access to other feats. Other "feat tax" things can at least be used by the class combat expertise for example. In this case it is simply impossible for a brawler to gain any benefit from 2 weapon fighting.

This urgently needs to be faq'd and fixed.

That was my idea as well, though you are right I totally missed that Flurry does not actually grant you two weapon fighting just the ability to act as if you had it.

[Vaellen]

I'm pretty sure Flurry was intended to count as the Pre-requisite. Having to take a feat that you effectively already have is beyond dumb.

[Rushley son of Halum]

Vaellen wrote:

I'm pretty sure Flurry was intended to count as the Pre-requisite. Having to take a feat that you effectively already have is beyond dumb.

I agree, but PFS is rules as written. That is a problem here. Luckily my new character has until he hits level 6 for them to clarify the problem.

Just a question, how long does it usually take for the first batch of FAQs to come out for a new book?

[The Morphling]

Rushley son of Halum wrote:

Vaellen wrote:

I'm pretty sure Flurry was intended to count as the Pre-requisite. Having to take a feat that you effectively already have is beyond dumb.

I agree, but PFS is rules as written. That is a problem here. Luckily my new character has until he hits level 6 for them to clarify the problem.

Just a question, how long does it usually take for the first batch of FAQs to come out for a new book?

As was pointed out to me in an earlier thread, Brawler's Flurry specifically says "You have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat while flurrying." That will qualify you for feats which need it as a prerequisite, so you don't need to take the feat itself.