Biggest natural attack


Advice


Is there anything out there that can even come close to the Ooze, Carnivorous Crystal in terms of attack dice for a natural weapon?

I would love anything that is medium at 2d6 or better. That would be a large at 3d6 and so on.

Preferable something that can be wildshaped into.

Giants are doable with a mask but I am not sure any of them have get big enough with a natural attack.

Alter self allows humanoids so might be something there.


?


The conqueror ooze is the best that I know of. If there were a superior creature to be wildshapped into and combined with Flurry of Blows and Feral Combat Training I imagine someone would have found it by now.


I didn't know Oozes was an option when you used wild shape. Am i wrong in thinking this? And where do you find this conqueror ooze?


Razal-Thule wrote:
I didn't know Oozes was an option when you used wild shape. Am i wrong in thinking this? And where do you find this conqueror ooze?

Conqueror Ooze is a nickname. And oozes are not normally available, it requires you to pickup the Cave Druid Archtype. Cave Druid Archetype allows you to select oozes to wildshape in to, I think at level 11 or so. Once this becomes available the Carnviorous Crystal Ooze has a natural attack that does 7d8 damage. Combine with strong jaw and improved natural attack to increase the damage die to ridiculous levels. Then take levels in monk and pickup Feral Combat training to allow you to flurry this natural attack with an ungodly number of damage dice.


Take a look at the Arsinoitherium- massive damage die for a large animal, you can get it 6th level.

Sovereign Court

heh considering that you can giant shape and cast animal growth on yourself nowadays because of the animal soul feat, I'm sure some people are already thinking of all the unholy combos that you can do with wildshape and animal spells.


Magyc wrote:
Take a look at the Arsinoitherium- massive damage die for a large animal, you can get it 6th level.

Carnvorous Crystal is 7d8. Admittedly, you don't get it till a later level, but the question was highest natural attack damage that can be wildshaped into. Arsinoitherium loses out here.


The conqueror ooze is a build that uses the cave druid archetype to gain ooze wildshape.

The Carnivorous Crystal Ooze is medium and has a natural attack of 7d6.

Improved natural attack takes 6d6 to 8d6.

Strong jaw takes 8d16 to 16d6.

Assuming that a beastshape is not an effect that increases your size then it is possible to use a spell to become large. This is debatable. The effect will overlap with and not stack with wildshape so far as stat boosts go.

That takes damage to 24d6.

Assuming you take 4 levels in a full BAB class you get greater vital strike at 20th level.

This lets you vital strike for 96d6

Rageing plus furious finish allows this to be maximized to 576.

Stack on all static mods and you get to darn high.


Meant D8s so things just get worse.

24d8 is 768 damage.

That left out d6 might scale three times becoming 3d6 and taking the total to 786.


I would love to try this build. But i know my gm would never allow it so i guess it will just have to simmer on a back burner for some day i can bring it out to play.


Arsinoitherium is great!

A hunter can take this form.

I was hoping there would be something that allowed others to play the big hit game well.

I also thought you could combine enlarge person, righteous might, and animal growth to go colossal. While wildshape is not a poly effect, size increasing spells have line that pervents stack with each other.


Wildshape functions as the appropriate Beast Shape spells, except in a few specific ways.

Quote:

Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal with which the druid is familiar.

A druid loses her ability to speak while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

A druid can use this ability an additional time per day at 6th level and every two levels thereafter, for a total of eight times at 18th level. At 20th level, a druid can use wild shape at will. As a druid gains levels, this ability allows the druid to take on the form of larger and smaller animals, elementals, and plants. Each form expends one daily use of this ability, regardless of the form taken.

At 6th level, a druid can also use wild shape to change into a Large or Tiny animal or a Small elemental. When taking the form of an animal, a druid's wild shape now functions as beast shape II. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid's wild shape functions as elemental body I.

At 8th level, a druid can also use wild shape to change into a Huge or Diminutive animal, a Medium elemental, or a Small or Medium plant creature. When taking the form of animals, a druid's wild shape now functions as beast shape III. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid's wild shape now functions as elemental body II. When taking the form of a plant creature, the druid's wild shape functions as plant shape I.

At 10th level, a druid can also use wild shape to change into a Large elemental or a Large plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid's wild shape now functions as elemental body III. When taking the form of a plant, the druid's wild shape now functions as plant shape II.

At 12th level, a druid can also use wild shape to change into a Huge elemental or a Huge plant creature. When taking the form of an elemental, the druid's wild shape now functions as elemental body IV. When taking the form of a plant, the druid's wild shape now functions as plant shape III.

None of those change a key important part of Beastshape

Quote:

School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 3

Casting Time 1 standard action

Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)

Range personal

Target you

Duration 1 min./level (D)

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium creature of the animal type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, and scent.

Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

Wildshape is a polymorph affect, it cannot be stacked with anything else that changes your size. Strong Jaw works fine because it doesn't change your size, only treats your size as larger for determining natural attack damage.


In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

Wildshape is not a polymoprh spell. It just works like one. If you take it like that then one size effecting spell can be added.

Also, the growth domain is a SU ability to enlarge person. This should work with a polymorph spell.

I know this is stretching raw.


Wildshape is a polymorph effect because Beast Shape is, and it works exactly as Beast Shape except for the noted differences in the Wild Shape description I quoted above.

From the polymorph section of the magic chapter in the core rule book:

Quote:
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

Growth domain ability also wont work because:

Quote:
Enlarge (Su): As a swift action you can enlarge yourself for 1 round, as if you were the target of the enlarge person spell. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

It functions like like the spell. And Enlarge person will not work with other polymorph affects.


Yours is the conservative standpoint.

I do not think a SU ability counts as a spell even if it acts like one.

I agree that wild shape can not be used with other polymorph spells or effects.

The last line only prevents size related spells not all magical effects.

I will concede that the 2nd sentence could lead one to treat any polymoprh effect as a spell.

If SU effect counts as spell in can be dispelled. I do not think that wildshape can be dispelled.

Do you have any evidence that SU that mimic spells count as spells?


Also has this been hashed out in some other thread?


Supernatural abilties are enough like a spell that they turn off in an antimagic field. I'm not sure if it's been hashed out properly or not whether all supernatural abilities count as spells. In fact, I don't think all do. But the ones that say that they function like a spell and reference a spell function like the spell.

So basically, at this point the only thing we disagree on is whether the Growth Domain's swift action enlarge ability would be viable with wildshape.

Based on the posts here, and here it seems most people agree that enalrge from the growth subdomain doesn't work.

The clear intention is that no further size changes should be allowable with polymorph effects, which includes wild shape. They may have dropped the ball a bit when writing the word spells, but at the time there was no non-spell option that could increase size. Growth Subdomain didn't exist till the Advanced Player's Guide, which obviously came out after the core rule book.

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