Elasticity + Long Arm


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

Kind of a corner case here, but I have a Kapenia Dancer Magus, and I'm wondering about the combination of two abilities.

The spell Long Arm out of the ACG increases the caster's reach by 5 feet.

The Magus Arcana Elasticity from the Kapenia Dancer archetype out of the Varisia splat book reads:

Elasticity wrote:
Elasticity (Su): As a free action, the bladed scarf dancer can spend 1 point from his arcane pool in order to grant a bladed scarf he’s wielding reach until the end of his turn. A bladed scarf dancer can use this arcana in tandem with other magus arcana.

So the spell gives you reach, and the arcana gives the weapon reach. My question is, does that mean with both active I'd be able to attack the 15-20 foot squares, or does it mean I'd be able to attack the 10-15 foot squares? I know if I was large, it would be the 15-20 foot squares, but I'm not sure if it matters that I, and the weapon, would still be medium.

And if I stacked Enlarge Person on top of that, what would happen?

Grand Lodge

RAW I'd say 15-20 ft. Since reach weapons typically double your natural reach.

But RAI I'd say 10-15 ft as it's still a medium reach weapon. If you somehow had a 30 ft reach with a natural arm and used a medium sized reach weapon it wouldn't give you a 60 foot reach (30 doubled).

re enlarged person: that's entirely its own question and there are already topics for it that are (imo) in need of a FAQ


It really depends on whether you add these static bonuses before or after you throw on a Reach weapon, a subject that's been unprecedented or unchecked until the ACG was released, opening many more options. I would say it's 15-20 feet for medium size as well. Long Arm adds a static 5 feet to your base natural reach, unlike the Lunge feat, which requires activation, and is added at the end of every calculation.

So, given a 5 foot reach base, you tack on Long Arm, which makes your natural reach 10 feet.

Here's the description of Reach Weapons:

Reach Weapons wrote:
Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, and whips are examples of reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

With a natural reach of 10 feet, using a Reach weapon doubles that, but turns it into a circumferential subject (that is, it only encompasses that in a circular motion, and not any of the area within its boundaries). Meaning you threaten 15 feet and 20 feet away, but not 10 or 5 feet away from your current position on the map. With the Lunge feat, you can also threaten up to 25 feet away.

Tack on Enlarge Person? That's a bit tricky. Assuming large with a 10 foot natural reach, Long Arm spell makes it 15. With a Reach weapon, it becomes 20-30 (that is, you threaten squares that are 20, 25, and 30 feet away) at the exclusion of 5-15 (5, 10, and 15 feet away). Lunge adds the 35 foot marker to your total reach level, but that's about it.

Ironically enough, a Bloodrager could get even more reach than that, but I am digressing.

Scarab Sages

Thanks. 15-20 does seem to be the RAW. It's a trip/disarm build, so being able to do so at a distance is beneficial.

I think the way Elasticity is worded, it wouldn't help for threatening, since it ends at the end of your turn. But it would let me (after having cast long arm) get the extra reach to trip someone on my turn that is next to the party melee character without getting within a 5 foot step.

Grand Lodge

I still say 15-20 is misinterpreting the rules on purpose. Just because you're a medium creature with a 10 foot reach doesn't mean you're all-of-a-sudden using a large reach weapon. "Most" reach weapons double because there are exceptions like the whip. If you, as a medium creature, have you arm magically extended to have a 40' reach, is you glaive all-of-a-sudden going to be able to reach out to 80'? Obviously the answer is no. Common sense says as much. This sentence was made in the context of a normal reach with a like-sized weapon. With anything else you have to go buy the mechanics and not over analyze the words to bend them to your will.


Reach Weapons: A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren't adjacent to him. Most reach weapons double the wielder's natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away.

and

Reach: You use a reach weapon to strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can't use it against an adjacent foe.

I feel the text supports that a reach "doubling" is for appropriate size. so it should add the normal base reach to the range. Kind of like how crits on a doubled attack increase the multiplier instead of staking together. Especially with the line about large needing a large weapon to double their reach.

Scarab Sages

I agree that a medium reach weapon adding just 5 feet makes more sense. This is for PFS, so I want to stick to RAW. Most likely, I'll just ask the GM and go with whatever they say each game. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. With a 15-20 foot reach, the advantage is obvious because you can hit something 20 feet away. The disadvantage is that you no longer threaten things that are 5 or 10 feet away. With adding 5 feet instead of doubling, you'd threaten at 10-15 feet, which has some advantages. Like if someone does get adjacent to you, you can still 5 foot step and attack them without having to change weapons.

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