[ACG] Canny tumble and confounding tumble deed

[zapbib]

First of all here are the feat as in the ACG:

Quote:

Canny Tumble (Combat)

Your acrobatic prowess distracts your foes.
Prerequisites: Dodge, Mobility, Acrobatics 5 ranks.
Benefit: When you use Acrobatics to move through an
opponent’s threatened area or space without provoking
an attack of opportunity from that opponent, you gain
a +2 circumstance bonus on your next melee attack roll
against that opponent, as long as you make that attack
before the start of your next turn.

This one is weird as it seems a weaker reprint from Disorienting Maneuver in ultimate combat. The one in UC doesn't need mobility and also give a bonus to trip.

Quote:

Confounding Tumble Deed (Panache)

You can befuddle a foe by striking a blow after tumbling.
Prerequisites: Amateur Swashbuckler† feat or panache†
class feature, Canny Tumble†, Acrobatics 7 ranks.
Benefit: When you use Acrobatics to move through an
opponent’s threatened area or space without provoking
an attack of opportunity from that opponent and then hit
that foe with a melee attack in the same round, as a free
action you can spend 1 panache point to deny that foe its
Dexterity bonus to its armor class until the end of your
next turn.

So it seems to be designed for rogue/slayer/ninja people, but requires a staggering 5 feat or a dip in swash and 4 feats.

Considering you have to first: tumble, Second: hit the oppnent and third: spend a panache point. All this to denie dex for a turn. It seems kinda weak. Does anyone think these feat can really be usefull?

Also, it says melee attack, if I trip the guy, does it count?

[zapbib]

so, no one got any idea what to do with those?

[Hawktitan]

It is pretty niche.

The only thing that makes it more then 'meh' is that it's extremely hard to get a full rounds worth of sneak attacks without flanking. This is one of the ways to do it.

The only that is good about this is that dodge and mobility are prereqs for Spring Attack, so if you were going that route anyway and are a sneak attack user then it's not as painful to pick up.

[zapbib]

Yeah, it is interesting for all the sneak attack, but I wonder if we coudn't get a bit more for 5 feat.

[Sgt Arpin]

It's useful for the Swashbuckler that has a rogue type in the party and was already going for spring attack.

It's in their role:
These fast and agile combatants serve as protectors for spellcasters and flank mates for rogues and slayers, while waiting for the opportunity to show panache and score the killing blow on some lumbering hulk.