Hello all so heres the deal, I'm making a campaign setting for my group while we finish up our current game and after playing far too much dark souls and skyrim on the weekends I'm wanting to make the loot and such more of an impact, and that loot includes spells.
What I mean is that I intend to drop things like scrolls, books, and other similar things that detail heroes and such and great magicians that mastered new spells, and so forth, the party could then decide to investigate these legends and go on a short little mini dungeon or whatever to reclaim the items. I know that scrolls and wands exist in the game but my group has expressed a distaste for them as they feel it makes things far too easy for casters, as does the automatic gain of any spell you could want on level, so this is partly a way I thought they would enjoy a different take on magic aquisition.
What I'm wondering is if anyone on here has any ideas on what kind of items could be looked for in these little mini-dungeons as I have few of the actual books, and while I will be making some custom things new ideas from other people are always very welcome since many have different or better ideas than I do. For the physical items including anything from weapons, armor, shields, wonderous items, and anything between, I'm trying for a somewhat artifact like feel to them as they are likely one of a kind, but full on artifacts can be a little much at early levels and I don't want to make just "+X" items the common find as they CAN upgrade their stuff, unless it's maybe a good idea to say certain enhancements are unique and can't just be bought?
Onto spells, what spells do you think should be the "there was one master" of this sorta thing? one that jumps to mind would be a spell like Color Spray, it jumps out at me as a weird and very powerful spell that seems like a good "someone figured it out and took it to the grave, now you can go try to copy it" sorta deal, but I'm not really a knowledge bank of spells.
Any ideas that you feel like sharing? and for reference to begin with we're starting at level 1 and probably going to level 20.
bump
I guess I don't really know what you're asking. Are you looking for items besides spells to be on scrolls/in books? If so, try handing out boons. Say the party kills a bunch of goblins and on said goblins is a hastily scrawled map showing a nearby tomb they were using as a lair. They also were carrying a book they were going to burn.
The book contains martial disciplines carried out by the general buried in the tomb. Anyone who studies and practices these disciplines for a week gains the Armor Expert trait, giving them a -1 Armor Check Penalty for all worn armor and shields.
Or were you asking what spells should you have buried in these side quests? Any spells is the answer. If you're going to restrict spells from being auto-learned then you might want to include any and all of them in loot piles. There will always be that ONE time the PCs need to cast Unseen Servant and to never have had the chance to have the spell would be frustrating.
I guess I don't really know what you're asking. Are you looking for items besides spells to be on scrolls/in books? If so, try handing out boons. Say the party kills a bunch of goblins and on said goblins is a hastily scrawled map showing a nearby tomb they were using as a lair. They also were carrying a book they were going to burn.
The book contains martial disciplines carried out by the general buried in the tomb. Anyone who studies and practices these disciplines for a week gains the Armor Expert trait, giving them a -1 Armor Check Penalty for all worn armor and shields.
Or were you asking what spells should you have buried in these side quests? Any spells is the answer. If you're going to restrict spells from being auto-learned then you might want to include any and all of them in loot piles. There will always be that ONE time the PCs need to cast Unseen Servant and to never have had the chance to have the spell would be frustrating.
Thats kinda the idea yeah, is there a list of boons like that I could look through?
And I don't nessarily want all spells to be like that, just certain ones that are more unique or powerful, though I could seen unseen servant being one of them since it has a lot of fun and interesting applications lol
No, there aren't a list of boons unfortunately. Some I've brainstormed in the past have been:
- A book of wilderness lore that provides +2 specifically in Forest terrain
- A faerie mark (Arcane Mark spell bestowed by a homebrewed Pixie variant called a Gravesworn Piskie) that grants +2 on Diplomacy with other Fey
- A dungeon room which, when activated by placing a specific magic rod in a console provides detailed instructions on the use of other magic rods, granting a +2 UMD specifically with magic rods
You might also just page through the Traits section and selecting boons from them. Finally the NPC Guide has suggested boons w/their NPCs; these may provide a template as well.
Someone had a topic on Tomes. A tome is a big, heavy book containing one or two spells and and mostly uses of the spell and other ways to cast them. For instance, a book on unseen servant that tells how you can add silk thread to repair any garment.
I played in a campaign where Wizards didn't auto get their spells... as the wizard.
It sucked; Had I known how it would turn out I wouldn't have played the wizard, if they tried to make me a wizard I wouldn't play at all. We were on a quest that had us chasing the Big bad across the globe; There was no time to go back, and each town had less and less to do with magic. When I just left that chara (only one I have ever abandoned like that) he had 2 spells of 4 level, none higher; he was level 10!
Basically the reason Charas get these things automatically is so they don't have to stop the current quest to go level... Would you make it so the fighter has to go see his trainer to learn his new feat? No?
Plus it makes your chara look stupid. You would think with all that int he could work out a couple of spells for himself.
Calling Dr spin...
So DragGon7601, would you play in such a game if there are lots of clubs and secret societies where wizards swap spell tomes? What if Familiars can go to the outer planes and fetch their master spells? That's what familiars did in myth and legends.
One pretty simple fix for casters, which has worked extremely well for our games, is to increase all spells with a cast time of a standard action to 1 round with two exceptions: direct damage spells (hit point damaging spells) and spells which restore hit points (healing) remain standard actions if already a standard action.
It allows casters to be flashy damage dealers/healers, while allowing other types of spells to be interrupted.
One side effect, which has proved entertaining, is our tank style player feels useful in protecting the casters and makes excellent use of Stand Still. Additionally, all of our group seems to enjoy the ability to potentially interrupt a lot of save or suck spells (of course, no one ever likes it when their save or suck spells are interrupted, but that's the point of teamwork vs one-man army).
This doesn't address your spells as loot issue directly, but certainly makes being a spellcaster less of a face roll (to use an MMO term - blasphemous, I know).
I played in a campaign where Wizards didn't auto get their spells... as the wizard.
It sucked; Had I known how it would turn out I wouldn't have played the wizard, if they tried to make me a wizard I wouldn't play at all. We were on a quest that had us chasing the Big bad across the globe; There was no time to go back, and each town had less and less to do with magic. When I just left that chara (only one I have ever abandoned like that) he had 2 spells of 4 level, none higher; he was level 10!
Basically the reason Charas get these things automatically is so they don't have to stop the current quest to go level... Would you make it so the fighter has to go see his trainer to learn his new feat? No?
Plus it makes your chara look stupid. You would think with all that int he could work out a couple of spells for himself.
well I said a lot of the list would be just regular things you could pick but I'm trying to cherry pick a good handful of spells that are 'special' ones you have to try and and learn after going to find them, and the point of this is partly to expand the world their in and go on more 'quest-like' adventures as the regular game I intend to be very open ended in how they try to figure out the plot.
On a side note I might be wrong, but isn't that more or less how it was in the early editions of DnD? and that sounds more like the DM wasn't intending to compensate for the changes put in, probably should have made more spell drops if learning them is more difficult. I had a similar idea for learning that you made a spell craft check of 10+spell level to learn it, pretty easy unless you roll really low.
One pretty simple fix for casters, which has worked extremely well for our games, is to increase all spells with a cast time of a standard action to 1 round with two exceptions: direct damage spells (hit point damaging spells) and spells which restore hit points (healing) remain standard actions if already a standard action.
It allows casters to be flashy damage dealers/healers, while allowing other types of spells to be interrupted.
One side effect, which has proved entertaining, is our tank style player feels useful in protecting the casters and makes excellent use of Stand Still. Additionally, all of our group seems to enjoy the ability to potentially interrupt a lot of save or suck spells (of course, no one ever likes it when their save or suck spells are interrupted, but that's the point of teamwork vs one-man army).
This doesn't address your spells as loot issue directly, but certainly makes being a spellcaster less of a face roll (to use an MMO term - blasphemous, I know).
I'll definetly file this idea away it's pretty intriguing! how do you handle quicken spell? does it reduce it to a standard again?
I'll definetly file this idea away it's pretty intriguing! how do you handle quicken spell? does it reduce it to a standard again?
If it works out for you and your group, excellent! If it doesn't, you're no worse off than you were before.=)
I'm really glad you mentioned that (Quicken Spell), as I should have stated that right up there with the rest of the suggestion and feel really dumb for leaving it out.
Two of the metamagic changes we use are:
1. Quicken Spell reduces it to a standard action, as you mentioned, and
2. All casters get heighten spell for free, i.e. we removed it as a feat - it's just a feature of spell casting.
Quicken Spell directly relates to the above suggestion. Heighten Spell is unrelated, the method works fine without the change, but it just made sense to us.
I should add, we apply this rule to all spells and spell-like abilities, but not supernatural abilities.
You might like Savage Mage then. They have access to this feat.
Quick and dirty Casting.(Metamagic)
You cast a spell quickly, but you set off a random magic flash.
Prerequisite: Non-lawful caster, non book memorized spell.
Benefit: Sorcerers and Savage Mages can cast a spell as a swift action. The Random Magic Flash, which could be good or bad, happens 100%. Wild surge or Rod of Wonder charts can be used.
Normal: Sorcerers could not cast quickened spells who's casting time is more than a full round action. Quicken spell adds 4 levels to the spell.
Special: This is a major benefit, so either make it cost a spell level or allow even the most disastrous magic flashes. You should also include the restriction that a caster can use one metamagic feat from their mind, and one from an item, on a spell. This feat is necessary to make a Rod of Wonder, and some more costly rods of wonder grant this feat 3 times a day.
You might like Savage Mage then. They have access to this feat.
Quick and dirty Casting.(Metamagic)
You cast a spell quickly, but you set off a random magic flash.
Prerequisite: Non-lawful caster, non book memorized spell.
Benefit: Sorcerers and Savage Mages can cast a spell as a swift action. The Random Magic Flash, which could be good or bad, happens 100%. Wild surge or Rod of Wonder charts can be used.
Normal: Sorcerers could not cast quickened spells who's casting time is more than a full round action. Quicken spell adds 4 levels to the spell.
Special: This is a major benefit, so either make it cost a spell level or allow even the most disastrous magic flashes. You should also include the restriction that a caster can use one metamagic feat from their mind, and one from an item, on a spell. This feat is necessary to make a Rod of Wonder, and some more costly rods of wonder grant this feat 3 times a day.
hmmm, thats an interesting idea, but I don't want to make magic TOO unappealing, after all it still should be viable
I'll bump my Magic Flashes topic. You could let the effects end quicker if you think they are too harsh. Take a look. I think it's pretty balanced as to it might help or hurt anybody.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2m251?Soliciting-Some-Wild-Spell-Failure-Result s#8
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