ACG Shield Issues.


Product Discussion

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

ok this thread is only for talking about the issues that have arisen for both the brawler and the Warpriest due to the combination of Magical enhancements you can attach to a shield

SHIELD SPIKES:

Price +10 gp
Shield Bonus —
Deadly spikes and bladed projections extend from some shields, transforming such pieces of armor into weapon in their own right. Shield spikes turn a shield into a martial piercing weapon and increase the damage dealt by a shield bash as if the shield were designed for a creature one size category larger (see "spiked light shield" and "spiked heavy shield" in the Martial Weapons table). You can't put spikes on a buckler or a tower shield. Otherwise, attacking with a spiked shield is like making a shield bash attack.
An enhancement bonus on a spiked shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but a spiked shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

BASHING:

Price +1 bonus; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Weight —
A shield with this special ability is designed to perform a shield bash. A bashing shield deals damage as if it were a weapon of two size categories larger (a Medium light shield thus deals 1d6 points of damage and a Medium heavy shield deals 1d8 points of damage). The shield acts as a +1 weapon when used to bash. Only light and heavy shields can have this ability.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost +1 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bull's strength

IMPACT:

Price +2 bonus; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Weight —
This special ability can only be placed on melee weapons that are not light weapons. An impact weapon delivers a potent kinetic jolt when it strikes, dealing damage as if the weapon were one size category larger. In addition, any bull rush combat maneuver the wielder attempts while wielding the weapon gains a bonus equal to the weapon's enhancement bonus; this includes all bull rush attempts, not only those in which a weapon is used, such as Bull Rush Strike, Shield Slam, or Unseat.
CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Cost +2 bonus
Craft Magic Arms and Armor, bull's strength, lead blades (Advanced Player's Guide), righteous might or giant form I

Sacred Weapon (Su)::
At 1st level, weapons wielded by
a warpriest are charged with the power of his faith. In
addition to the favored weapon of his deity, the warpriest
can designate a weapon as a sacred weapon by selecting
that weapon with the Weapon Focus feat; if he has multiple
Weapon Focus feats, this ability applies to all of them.
Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the
weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon
type. The damage for Medium warpriests is listed on Table
1–14; see the table below for Small and Large warpriests. The
warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead
of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before
the attack roll is made. (If the weapon’s base damage exceeds
the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.) This
increase in damage does not affect any other aspect of the
weapon, and doesn’t apply to alchemical items, bombs, or
other weapons that only deal energy damage.
At 4th level, the warpriest gains the ability to enhance one
of his sacred weapons with divine power as a swift action.
This power grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus.
For every 4 levels beyond 4th, this bonus increases by 1 (to
a maximum of +5 at 20th level). If the warpriest has more
than one sacred weapon, he can enhance another on the
following round by using another swift action. The warpriest
can use this ability a number of rounds per day equal to his
warpriest level, but these rounds need not be consecutive.
These bonuses stack with any existing bonuses the
weapon might have, to a maximum of +5. The warpriest can
enhance a weapon with any of the following weapon special
abilities: brilliant energy, defending, disruption, f laming, frost,
keen, and shock. In addition, if the warpriest is chaotic, he
can add anarchic and vicious. If he is evil, he can add mighty
cleaving and unholy. If he is good, he can add ghost touch
and holy. If he is lawful, he can add axiomatic and merciful.
If he is neutral (with no other alignment components), he
can add spell storing and thundering. Adding any of these
special abilities replaces an amount of bonus equal to the
special ability’s base cost (see Table 15–9 on page 469 of
the Core Rulebook). Duplicate abilities do not stack. The
weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before
any other special abilities can be added.
If multiple weapons are enhanced, each oneconsumes
rounds of use individually. The enhancement bonus and
special abilities are determined the first time the ability is
used each day, and cannot be changed until the next day.
These bonuses do not apply if another creature is wielding
the weapon, but they continue to be in effect if the weapon
otherwise leaves the warpriest’s possession (such as if the
weapon is thrown). This ability can be ended as a free
action at the start of the warpriest’s turn (that round does
not count against the total duration, unless the ability is
resumed during the same round). If the warpriest uses
this ability on a double weapon, the effects apply to only
one end of the weapon.

from my calculations all of these things stack creating a "mega weapon"
I put this to Paizo staff please advise of your ruling on this combination so that it is not abused if it was not intended.

Grand Lodge

Heavy Shield = 1d4
Spiked Heavy Shield = 1D6
+1 bashing Heavy Shield = 1D8
+1 Bashing Spiked Heavy Shield = 2D6
+1 Impact Spiked +1 Bashing Heavy Spiked Shield = 3D6+1
Cast enlarge person on the shield wielder = 4D6+1

add warpriest
1st-4th = Base 1D8 add shield = 6D6+1
5th-9th = Base 2D6 add shield = 7D6+1
10th-14th = Base 2d8 add shield = 7D8+1
15th-19th = Base 3d6 add shield = 8D6+1
20th = Base 3D8 add shield = 8D8+1

that is per hit

add vital strike and cleave feats..... or flurry of blows


You don't add Sacred Weapon damage to the damage that the weapon normally uses it either replaces it if the weapon damage is lower or only allows you to add pluses or enchantments if the weapon damage is higher than the Sacred Weapon damage.

Dark Archive

I'm also not sure you can get the Impact and the Bashing to stack

Grand Lodge

So weather or not you think they don't stack. They actually do

Hero lab Users try it out.

Each is a different source. And they all differently do the same thing and stack

At 10th level hero lab gives me 8D8 damage add. Vital strike that's 16D6 damage

Grand Lodge

I want a paizo employee to address this issue

Sczarni

Humphry B ManWitch wrote:

So weather or not you think they don't stack. They actually do

Hero lab Users try it out.

Each is a different source. And they all differently do the same thing and stack

At 10th level hero lab gives me 8D8 damage add. Vital strike that's 16D6 damage

I wouldn't expect paizo employees to bother with explaining how why a 3rd party app like hero labs does or doesn't work.

Bashing and Impact do not stack as the targets of the enchantment are completely different targets.

You can enchant the spike on the shield with impact, but not bashing.
likewise you can enchant the shied that has the spike with bashing but not impact...

Grand Lodge

You are still enchanting the shield but as a weapon. They stack as there are two different distinctive parts of a shield the armour side (bashing enhancement ) then there is the weapon side shield spikes and impact. You have to remember to use a shield to attack you have to enchant it both as an armour and as a weapon


Saying you need a Dev to address the issue when it's fairly cut and dry really defeats the purpose of why you made this thread, especially when there are people who aren't Devs that can answer your question the same way a Dev could.

Both subjects "deal damage as if you were X size(s) category(/categories) larger"; as such, they won't stack, since they are the same magical effect, and you only take the highest effect in such a case.

Though you are correct in that Enlarge Person would stack with those effects.

As for the Warpriest stuff, re-read this clause:

Sacred Weapon wrote:

Whenever the warpriest hits with his sacred weapon, the weapon damage is based on his level and not the weapon

type.

So you either take the 2D8 Warpriest dice, or the shield's base dice, and you enhance with Impact or Bashing from there. In other words, you can have 6D8 shield bashes using the Warpriest base with Bashing property, or 3D6 shield bashes with the shield base using Bashing property. (Plus Enlarge Person.)

And this clause:

Sacred Weapon wrote:
The warpriest can decide to use the weapon’s base damage instead of the sacred weapon damage—this must be declared before the attack roll is made. (If the weapon’s base damage exceeds the sacred weapon damage, its damage is unchanged.)

So on an attack-by-attack basis, you decide which benefits you use.


Even if bashing and impact can stack (i am not sure myself), you can't use vital strike with cleave nor with flurry of blows.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Finally. A decent shield build.

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