would arcane strike ever grant more than a +1 bonus to a paladin that has a one level dip in the sorcerer class?


Rules Questions


As power attack drops my attack bonus too low for my liking.
At the moment sor1/pal2 and on the way to a vital strike build with enlarge person with a oversized bastard sword build.

Scarab Sages

If your only arcane caster level is from sorcerer, and you do not take any more sorcerer levels or a PrC that increases casting, no. If you had a racial SLA yes.

Silver Crusade

If you don't take Power Attack in that build you're gimping yourself.

Scarab Sages

Arcane Strike says caster level, not arcane caster level. An important distinction.


Artanthos wrote:
Arcane Strike says caster level, not arcane caster level. An important distinction.

By strict RAW, you can indeed use the paladin caster level as the basis for the bonus. The sorcerer level fills up the prerequisite, but as you said, the feat doesn't say arcane caster level. I do think however, that it is pretty clear that RAI is that it is arcane caster level.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
If you don't take Power Attack in that build you're gimping yourself.

Power attack is in my build plan but at this time my attack bonus is pretty low so arcane strike might be more beneficial at 3rd level if it scales with my paladin caster level. Though furious focus might help more but paladin feats are kind of hard to get without dipping .

Scarab Sages

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If you are going for a vital strike build, Arcane Strike isn't worth it. It's a small amount of static damage that competes with a swift action and will only be applying on one hit. Arcane Strike works best when you have multiple attacks per round.


But aside from lay on hands i don't have any use for my swift actions.
Maybe extra lay on hands is a better choice as i have the oath of vengeance.

Scarab Sages

fel_horfrost wrote:

But aside from lay on hands i don't have any use for my swift actions.

Maybe extra lay on hands is a better choice as i have the oath of vengeance.

In addition to LoH, pally has a lot of good swift action buffing spells that will be more useful than Arcane Strike, Litany of Righteousness being the most obvious one. It's also a swift action to activate Smite Evil.

Grand Lodge

Artanthos wrote:
Arcane Strike says caster level, not arcane caster level. An important distinction.

Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells.

I think that sets the RAI quite implicitly. It's why the feat is called "Arcane Strike" not "Divine Strike", not "Caster Strike", nor "Magic Strike".


rai is not in question.
raw is.

Grand Lodge

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fel_horfrost wrote:

rai is not in question.

raw is.

RAW is something that rules lawyers use to needlessly extend debate.

One person will say that RAW doesn't say arcane casters only. Another will say that it doesn't say ALL casters.

My opinion is that the listed Pre-requisite IS the RAW answer. You can be a 20th level cleric and you still won't qualify for the feat. You need to be an arcane caster or equivalent to take the feat so it follows by logic that only arcane casting contributes to effective caster level.

Silver Crusade

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I think a very solid logic chain would follow thusly:

What increases the damage your arcane strike does?
-a higher caster level
What kind of caster level is required to take Arcane Strike?
-an arcane caster level
Does this mean only increasing that arcane caster level increases Arcane Strike damage?
-almost certainly yes


As a paladin you don't get much of a boost against generic foes for your to-hit like a fighter or barbarian. It's potentially better or worse then the rangers favored enemy, depending on often they show up. Really the main thing a paladin has going for him is boss killing. He's a beast at that. So for the generic foe you kinda need your team more.
But to boost your to-hit. There's flanking, there's increased STR, there's better items (masterwork and magic), and weapon focus.
Also, there are other ways to make yourself large then a level of sorcerer. I think the best would be to go growth domain with the Paladin archetype that gets some domain powers. Or have someone in your party cast it on you. This will let you have all paladin levels for the higher BAB for your hitting.


Imbicatus wrote:

If you are going for a vital strike build, Arcane Strike isn't worth it. It's a small amount of static damage that competes with a swift action and will only be applying on one hit. Arcane Strike works best when you have multiple attacks per round.

Arcane Strike wrote:
As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

By rights, it applies to all attacks made in a round. So Attacks of Opportunity get this benefit too, as well as iteratives he obtains from levels. It scales slower, but it doesn't give up attack bonus, which he only has at +2 BAB right now.

Even though Imbicatus made the point incorrectly, nonetheless it's there. Having to give up your Swift Action each round (which would be used for Lay On Hands, or later down the road, Quickened Spells perhaps) in most cases is not worth utilizing the Arcane Strike feat. Arcane Strike is really strong only if you have no reliable means to use Swift Actions; Paladins (and eventually Sorcerers) end up having abilities which require Swift Actions, meaning you might as well forgo it.

I will point out that RAW, CL type doesn't matter. RAI, it's fairly obvious that it's supposed to scale from your Caster Level from Arcane casting.

Just as well, it's not broken to allow it, since you could just as easily make a Divine Strike feat that functions exactly the same, except with Divine spells instead.

Scarab Sages

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

If you are going for a vital strike build, Arcane Strike isn't worth it. It's a small amount of static damage that competes with a swift action and will only be applying on one hit. Arcane Strike works best when you have multiple attacks per round.

Arcane Strike wrote:
As a swift action, you can imbue your weapons with a fraction of your power. For 1 round, your weapons deal +1 damage and are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. For every five caster levels you possess, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
By rights, it applies to all attacks made in a round. So Attacks of Opportunity get this benefit too, as well as iteratives he obtains from levels. It scales slower, but it doesn't give up attack bonus, which he only has at +2 BAB right now..

It is only one hit on a vital strike, as you are giving up your iterative attacks. Granted, it does apply on AoOs but unless you are using a reach weapon, it's not that often you can use one.


As a large sized creature i have a 10 foot reach.

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