|
| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The fly skill say:
A creature with a natural fly speed receives a bonus (or penalty) on Fly skill checks depending on its maneuverability: Clumsy –8, Poor –4, Average +0, Good +4, Perfect +8. Creatures without a listed maneuverability rating are assumed to have average maneuverability.
The fly spell say:
The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good.
To me that seem a leftover from the previous edition of the game that has been overwritten by this part of the spell:
The subject gains a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level.
Other people feel differently.
Then we have the beastshape spells that give the ability to fly with a specific maneuverability (that change with the different spells). The beastshape spells only give specific supernatural abilities, so it seem that we are speaking of naturals ways to fly, here. And the spells don't give any bonus to the fly skill beside the maneuverability.
So the question is:
When we should apply the maneuverability class bonus? What is a natural fly speed and what isn't?
|
This is now the 3rd thread about this exact same question, but I'm pretty sure you're the only one each time that's been claiming you don't get the +4 from good maneuverability.
It's not FAQ worthy. You run it how you want, and I'll run it how I want.
But to simply believe it's a copy/paste error, with no other suggestion from Developers or Designers to point anyone in that direction, IMO, is not how rules should be read.
Not certain of the question here.
Apply maneuverability when it says you can. In the case of wildshape, you gain the basic creature's maneuverability.
In the case of the Fly spell -
You add (or subtract) the maneuverability as a miscellaneous bonus. The caster bonus is bonus from another source (power of the spell rather than from the maneuverability). This means the two are cumulative. Not that overpowering as people under a fly spell shouldn't be dogfighting in the air for long anyway.
Fly skill can be used untrained, so DEX bonus is also added.
Armor check penalties also apply.
What cooks my noddle is this - can you take skill focus in Fly without having ranks in it?
By Rules As Written, seems there's nothing against it.
By Rules As Intended - there's wiggle room to argue either way.
Not certain of the question here.
Apply maneuverability when it says you can. In the case of wildshape, you gain the basic creature's maneuverability.
In the case of the Fly spell -
You add (or subtract) the maneuverability as a miscellaneous bonus. The caster bonus is bonus from another source (power of the spell rather than from the maneuverability). This means the two are cumulative. Not that overpowering as people under a fly spell shouldn't be dogfighting in the air for long anyway.
Respectfully I have to disagree. Fly spell isn't natural by any definition of the word i'm familiar with, and you only get the maneouverability bonus with a natural fly speed.
The mention of maneouverability in the Fly spell seems redundant as it does nothing to change the rules of the fly skill.
Beast shape grants you normal movement bonuses, including natural fly speed, so you should add it then.
The question really should be about the creatures that fly without wings, so for example Kirin, or Air Elementals? FWIW I would say any creature with an inherent ability to fly at will should gain the bonus.
|
|
Not certain of the question here.
Apply maneuverability when it says you can. In the case of wildshape, you gain the basic creature's maneuverability.
In the case of the Fly spell -
You add (or subtract) the maneuverability as a miscellaneous bonus. The caster bonus is bonus from another source (power of the spell rather than from the maneuverability). This means the two are cumulative. Not that overpowering as people under a fly spell shouldn't be dogfighting in the air for long anyway.Respectfully I have to disagree. Fly spell isn't natural by any definition of the word i'm familiar with, and you only get the maneouverability bonus with a natural fly speed.
The mention of maneouverability in the Fly spell seems redundant as it does nothing to change the rules of the fly skill.
Beast shape grants you normal movement bonuses, including natural fly speed, so you should add it then.
The question really should be about the creatures that fly without wings, so for example Kirin, or Air Elementals? FWIW I would say any creature with an inherent ability to fly at will should gain the bonus.
I agree. Some polymorph spell blur that limit as you don't become the creature and you acquire only some of its abilities. .
This is now the 3rd thread about this exact same question, but I'm pretty sure you're the only one each time that's been claiming you don't get the +4 from good maneuverability.
Actually it is part of what andreww asked in his thread, I simply tried to make the question clearer to be FAQed.
It's not FAQ worthy. You run it how you want, and I'll run it how I want.But to simply believe it's a copy/paste error, with no other suggestion from Developers or Designers to point anyone in that direction, IMO, is not how rules should be read.
You have some rule that change the requirement of having a natural fly speed to get the maneuverability modifier?
Something that say that the fly spell give a natural fly speed?