So after a year my DM just restarted his RotRL campaign and our party left off. We just got are investigating the Skinsaw Murders and we had just been contacted about the scarecrows killing people at the farm. The sheriff offered to send four guards with our party to help us, but after the experience that my character had with the guards and the fact that they ran away from the last encounter they were suppose to help us with, we declined their help. We then proceeded to get thoroughly stomped by the large infestation of ghouls. Granted, half of our party split up and got themselves into a sticky situation, but if it wasn't for some DM intervention via some help from Asmodeus, we would have been dead.
Now I will be the first to acknowledge that our party made a lot of stupid mistakes. Unfortunately, I don't think this will be the last time they make stupid mistakes. So I'm wondering what I can do better mechanics-wise to prevent some of these situations from happening again.
Party Composition
My character: Monk Master of Many Styles 2/ Magus 3 Quarterstaff Master: Big focus on using crane style for defense while dealing out the damage.
Sylph Sorcerer 5: Not really sure what she's going for yet as she has been locked down or disabled each time we get into combat.
Dwarf Barbarian 5: Likes to hit things with his Greataxe.
Catfolk Ninja 5: Amazing stats, but has also been blinded and hasn't bothered to get that healed yet.
Sorcerer and Barbarian both got paralyzed just about instantly by ghouls.
Catfolk was hidden out in the barn by his lonesome because he thought he could sneak anywhere. Got ambushed and just about got himself killed if it wasn't for divine intervention.
Monk/Magus I was basically on my lonesome with my enlarge person and expeditious retreat uncast yet because ghouls are apparently pretty good at sneaking and coordinating attacks. I was able to take down two of them, but I had to keep initiating total defense to boost my AC up to 27 so I couldn't get hit. Was brought down to 8 hp and couldn't cast any of my buffs as those would take up a full action.
So what can I do on my end to make an encounter like this survivable without Infernal Intervention. I've already prepared the spells Shield and Vanish for my spells for the day so that should buy me some time to get some of those essential buffs down to start dealing with the large amounts of baddies. All suggestions appreciated!
How does your party heal and/or remove conditions?
Do you use Infernal Healing?
My best advice is to well act like a party. There's nothing more powerful that a cohesive tactical party. There's some great tactical advice articles on here so I'd suggest reading them then bringing it up to your party. None of the characters you posted seem like they've been build to solo encounters so you'll be strongest together.
Hm it seems like you are in this mess as of your writing? If so what equipment and relevant stats do you have?
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Ghouls are probably the most dangerous monster, for their CR, in the game. Your group made some mistakes. Your group composition is weak and unbalanced. The outcome is not surprising.
You're looking for The Forge of Combat. This essay pretty well describes your situation, and how to improve it.
Monk (Hammer)
Sylph Sorcerer (Anvil)
Barbarian (Hammer)
Ninja (Hammer)
So, your group has no support Arm character. No divine caster, no Bard, nothing that enhances anyone. Your only magical healing is UMD and possibly Infernal Healing from the Sorcerer. That's a big weak point right there.
Since the Sylph Sorcerer keeps getting taken out before being able to act, she has some problems. Arcane casters who survive for long are typically cautious to the point of paranoia. She's probably not being paranoid and cautious enough. With her loss at the start of combat your group is fighting with only 3 Hammers. That's another big weak point.
Your group started the fight with only Hammers, no Arm and no Anvil. If you face dangerous foes (e.g. ghouls) you should expect to lose in this situation.
Groups without Anvils: Groups without anvils typically end up having an overabundance of hammers with one or two members playing the part of arms. These groups typically have fast, furious fights where the group takes a lot of damage. In these situations the arms often take on a reactive role providing healing and buffs as able while the hammers frantically try to end the encounter quickly. Depending on the nature of the hammers this often drains the arms very quickly of resources or forces the hammers into more and more defensive roles draining overall resources more as the group is not ending encounters efficiently enough.
Groups without Arms: Perhaps the most forgiving of the three major imbalances. These groups usually spend more resources than necessary to finish an encounter. When they don’t they exist on a razor’s edge where an enemies passed save or a characters failed save can mean the difference between failure and victory. This is much worse in groups that lack the means to magically heal themselves and are thus forced into shorter adventuring days or burning wealth on tons of cure light wound wands.
Superior tactics will help.
Not splitting up will help.
However, if you are going to split up in an area filled with ghouls then I suggest you slather yourself with barbecue sauce before hand.
So, in reality you all died screaming, but Asmodeus, even though he hates mortals with a burning passion, saved your lives.
Basically, if the party is dead set on splitting up then don't be afraid to abandon them to their fates if you run faster than the enemy.
My character: Monk Master of Many Styles 2/ Magus 3 Quarterstaff Master: Big focus on using crane style for defense while dealing out the damage.
Vanish + spacing. You absolutely need to ensure that you don't get surrounded, because once you do the BBQ sauce comes out to make your magus finger licking good. If you are on your lonesome, which should usually be ~never~ then vanish and Ghost Sound are your best friends. If you can get it then Spell Shield is great for increasing your AC when you need to not get hit, and Silent Image is great for hiding long term from the enemy so long as they don't see you when you cast it to conceal yourself.
Sylph Sorcerer 5: Not really sure what she's going for yet as she has been locked down or disabled each time we get into combat.
Sounds like a finger licking good sorceress if she is perpetually shut down. Perhaps she should invest in something that will keep her alive.
Dwarf Barbarian 5: Likes to hit things with his Greataxe.
No problem there, if he isn't paralyzed he is probably pretty good at separating skulls from torsos.
Catfolk Ninja 5: Amazing stats, but has also been blinded and hasn't bothered to get that healed yet.
Blinded. So how does this character move around or sneak? You need to be behind something to sneak, and you wouldn't really be able to discern what is actually offering cover or not just by touch. That is the thing about sight, you actually need to be able to see if you can be seen. I guess this kitty likes only moving 1/4 speed since blind movement is 1/2 speed and sneaking is 1/2 as well, compounding to 1/4. More over, blind characters denied Dex to AC and are constantly flatfooted. Considering Ninja don't get heavier armor this character is already covered in BBQ sauce with a gigantic "EAT ME" sign on both its back and chest with free skewers in its backpack.
Honestly, this will sound cruel, let the party die, reroll, make better choices. You don't have a healer, so your life expectancy is already greatly reduced.
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+1 Magda Luckbender
The forge of Combat is a great read and helps people notice flaws in party make ups. It definitely improved my game after I read it. I passed it on to my group and they all improved.
We ran ROTRL without an Arm and had lots of deaths and burned through resources...was not very fun being behind on gear because your main frontliner dies in every book just about because he gets overwhelmed when an anvil could have saved him each time.
Honestly, this will sound cruel, let the party die, reroll, make better choices. You don't have a healer, so your life expectancy is already greatly reduced.
Yes....I agree though it is morbid.
Firstly your going to be around level 17 at the end...plan your character out fully. Also know that you will need a full prepared caster of some sort...the more the better.
I will be honest a good party make ups for ROTRLs is:
Wizard/Witch, Evangelist Cleric, Front-line Paladin, Switch hitter Ranger w/ good favored enemies. -This group is well balanced and will bring down fights quickly...you lack trapfinding/disabling...but that is not a big deal for a good ranger with perception to just go around the trap.
It definitely looks like a tough pickle for you. However, it's not unescapable.
Reviewing your texts.
Monk/Magus I was basically on my lonesome with my enlarge person and expeditious retreat uncast yet because ghouls are apparently pretty good at sneaking and coordinating attacks. I was able to take down two of them, but I had to keep initiating total defense to boost my AC up to 27 so I couldn't get hit. Was brought down to 8 hp and couldn't cast any of my buffs as those would take up a full action.
I'm assuming you have a base speed of 30 feet. Ghouls generally do too. Although you're correct on Enlarge Person being a Full Round cast time, Expeditious Retreat is a Standard Action. I have it bolded, as it's the key to your survival. (It's in the name, after all...)
Your group split up and bit off more than it can chew. With the way things are going, the Rogue is gonna make it because Asmodeus (the GM) loves him. So he'll be fine, and he'll probably regroup with you. (Here's a hint for him: You cannot hide from Undead. It's impossible.) It appears you, on the other hand, won't be so lucky to receive his help. The Sorcerer and Barbarian are screwed, especially since you have no spell or item to save them (or maybe you do; an item list and spell list from all your party could help, and be sure to include everything, as you may have overlooked a plot item the GM may have given you or whatever), so they're goners.
But, you can still get out; though at a risky gambit. It's much better than going Full Defense and just waiting for them to roll a 20 and hit you, since the Ninja is going to get out of dodge fast. I'm guessing you have Combat Casting though, since you're a Magus and all, and you excel as Casting Defensively. The solution from there becomes simple.
Round 1: Combat Cast Expeditious Retreat, which is a Standard Action. Since it's a 1st level spell, the DC (17) with a +10 or so makes it a little less than even roll (and in your favor, I might add). Should you make the check, this gives your base movement speed 30 feet, making each Move Action a 60 foot gap creator.
Round 2: If the Ghouls want to chase (they're pretty dumb, so they probably will), they need to double move to get you. After that, you can Withdraw, moving up to 120 feet, and get out of Dodge fast, with them trailing behind you.
Round ?: If you really don't want to abandon your friends, try and lure the ghouls away from them, then try to snap them out/cure them, and get the heck out of there.
So someone was asking about my character in particular and here he is.
Van Leer
Human (Chelaxian) Magus (Staff Magus) 3/Monk (Master of Many Styles) 2
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +9
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 15, flat-footed 16 (+5 armor, +3 Dex, +1 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 44 (5d8+15)
Fort +8, Ref +7, Will +7; +2 bonus vs. sleep, paralysis, and stunning
Defensive Abilities evasion
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 quarterstaff +8 (1d6+6) and
unarmed strike +7 (1d6+4)
Special Attacks magus arcana (arcane accuracy), spellstrike, stunning fist (2/day, DC 13)
Magus (Staff Magus) Spells Prepared (CL 5th; concentration +9):
1st—enlarge person (DC 15), expeditious retreat, shocking grasp, vanish{super}APG{/super} (DC 15)
0 (at will)—detect magic, disrupt undead, light, prestidigitation
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 11
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 22
Feats Crane Riposte[UC], Crane Style[UC], Crane Wing[UC], Dodge, Dragon Style[UC], Improved Unarmed Strike, Quarterstaff Master[UM], Stunning Fist, Toughness
Traits magical knack, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +11, Climb +8, Escape Artist +11, Fly +10, Intimidate +8, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Knowledge (planes) +8, Knowledge (religion) +8, Perception +9, Ride +7, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +11, Stealth +7, Swim +8, Use Magic Device +4
Languages Common, Draconic, Infernal, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ arcane pool, fuse style, hero points, spell combat, stunning fist (stun), unarmed strike
Other Gear +1 mithral chain shirt, +1 quarterstaff, ring of protection +1
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Accuracy +4 (Su) 1 Arcane Pool: +4 to attack rolls until the end of your turn.
Arcane Pool (+1, 5/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Crane Riposte When you deflect an attack, you may make an attack of opportunity
Crane Style Penalty when fighting defensively reduced to -2 and dodge bonus increases by 1.
Crane Wing May deflect one attack per round while fighting defensively or using total defense
Dragon Style +2 vs sleep, paralysis, and stun, first unarmed strike in a rd deals 1.5x Str, and can ignore difficult terrain/allies when charging.
Evasion (Ex) If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
Fuse Style (2 styles) (Ex) At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style. The master of many styles can have two style feat stances active at once.
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Magical Knack (Magus [Staff Magus]) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Quarterstaff Master Use a quarterstaff one-handed
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
Spellstrike (Su) Deliver touch spells as part of a melee attack.
Stunning Fist (2/day, DC 13) You can stun an opponent with an unarmed attack.
Stunning Fist (Stun) (Ex) At 1st level, the monk gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the monk gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
I would like to introduce another character into the party to balance it out. A Dual-Cursed Life Oracle who could do damage and provide healing. Here are her stats.
Agathion-Blooded Aasimar (Idyllkin) Oracle (Dual-Cursed Oracle) 5
N Medium outsider (native)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 17 (+7 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 60 (5d8+30)
Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +8; +2 vs. death, +4 Competence bonus vs. disease
Resist acid 5, cold 5, electricity 5
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee morningstar +0 (1d8+1)
Special Attacks channel positive energy 6/day (DC 18, 4d6)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +10)
1/day—lesser age resistance
Oracle (Dual-Cursed Oracle) Spells Known (CL 5th; concentration +10):
2nd (5/day)—cure moderate wounds, flaming sphere (DC 17), lesser restoration, oracle's burden{super}APG{/super} (DC 17), scorching ray, zone of truth (DC 17)
1st (8/day)—bless, burning hands (DC 16), cure light wounds, ill omen{super}APG{/super}, protection from evil, sanctuary (DC 16), shield of faith
0 (at will)—enhanced diplomacy, guidance, light, mending, purify food and drink (DC 15), stabilize
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Statistics
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Str 12, Dex 16, Con 20, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 20
Base Atk +3; CMB +4; CMD 17
Feats Combat Casting, Selective Channeling, Toughness
Skills Bluff +1, Diplomacy +9, Disguise +5, Heal +11, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (history) +9, Knowledge (planes) +8, Knowledge (religion) +8, Perception +8, Sense Motive +11, Spellcraft +11
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Gnome, Sylvan
SQ hero points, immortal spark, mysteries (mystery [life]), oracle's curses (blackened, wasting), revelations (fortune, misfortune, channel)
Other Gear +1 mithral agile breastplate, morningstar, cloak of resistance +1, grooming kit, oracle's kit, 980 gp
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Special Abilities
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Blackened Your hands and forearms are shriveled and blackened. You take a –4 penalty on weapon attack rolls
Combat Casting +4 to Concentration checks to cast while on the defensive.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Energy Resistance, Acid (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Acid attacks.
Energy Resistance, Cold (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Cold attacks.
Energy Resistance, Electricity (5) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Electricity attacks.
Fortune (1/day) (Ex) At 5th level, as an immediate action, you can reroll any one d20 roll that you have just made before the results of the roll are revealed. You must take the result of the reroll, even if it's worse than the original roll. You can use this ability once per day.
Hero Points (1) Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
Immortal Spark You gain +2 to saves vs death.
Misfortune (Ex) At 1st level, as an immediate action, you can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it's worse than the other.
Oracle Channel Positive Energy 4d6 (6/day, DC 18) (Su) Positive energy heals the living and harms the undead; negative has the reverse effect.
Selective Channeling Exclude targets from the area of your Channel Energy.
Wasting +4 competence bonus to save vs. Disease.
To those of you advising I let the party die. I wouldn't mind that happening, though our DM has intervened a few times in campaigns to prevent people from dying so it might be hard for a total TPK. In reality, I can just see them remaking their characters so I don't know if a TPK would fix the situation. It really comes down to the players wanting to change which I don't really see happening. This is the reason I started this thread so I could see what I could do on my part as I don't think I can do a good job convincing everyone else to change the way they plan if the DM comes to the rescue when the going gets tough.
\I'm guessing you have Combat Casting though, since you're a Magus and all, and you excel as Casting Defensively.
I actually do not have Combat Casting. I figure I'm going to be getting some concentration check bonuses later on as I level so I haven't taken the feat. I mainly just fight defensively and cast using spell strike. If I provoke an AoO I have my Crane Style activated so I can give myself the +4 to AC on one attack made against me. I realize that this is only against one attack, but my AC is already pretty good and I can usually dodge most attacks made against me.
If you can't get the party on board then you may want to die in order to remake a highly optimized character so you don't have to rely on the party which honestly would probably benefit both your fun and the parties. This would let them do whatever while you can focus on completing the story. I think this is funny because I normally tell people not to optimize.
So I would create a tier 1 god caster, you spoke of an oracle so you might want to make one of those super ac oracles also make sure you are a race that gives more spells that will be key.
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@ Malusciocus: Your Oracle would get a substantial melee combat boost out of increasing STR to 14 and carrying a longspear. You could drop Combat Casting, as you should not need it: either 5' step then cast your spell; also, channeling does not provoke an AoO. There are lots of better feats. One is Combat Reflexes, which would give you four! AoOs and thereby lay down some much-needed battlefield control. Find a way to Enlarge Person and you will get three! AoOs in your 50' diameter zone of control, and even get them when flatfooted like when you are ambushed by ghouls!
@Taku: I love the BBQ sauce running gag :-)