What exactly can we do with: Ranged weapons

[Dustyboy]

So i'm looking to collaborate on a list of tips/tricks/techniques for ranged weapons in pathfinder that can help to overcome some of the so called limitations of ranged combat. I'm also attempting to make these tricks as Feat-lite as possible, as in one or two feats/class level dips at most.

I want to separate this into five categories, one for each of the three primary ranged weapons (Bow, Crossbow, Firearm), One for All others, and one for general/any ranged.

I'll start out with a few Examples, one or two for each category.

While I am allowing some Raw exploits, i'm not open to blatant abandonment of logic here.

1.) Bows

I. Viridium Splitercloud arrows.

II. If you're ever able to acquire two additional arms You can then stack the entire Archery tree with the two weapon fighting tree. While this is simply a full build it is worth noting.

2.) Crossbows

I. Use of the Burn!Burn!Burn! feat Applies to an alchemist-fire bolt, which gives the weapon a total of a +2d4 damage

3.) Firearms

I.

4.) Other

I.

5.) General

I. The use of Catch off guard combined with any ranged weapon allows the weapon to be used as a melee club.. this is especially useful for firearms

II. Vital Strike works with ranged weaponry

III. If you find a waist high wall/fence (They're everywhere in the real world) Try to fire a volley and then drop prone, usage of Feat and Class features such as Stand Up , Ki Stand , and Monkey Style allow you to make the best of this

IV. Usage of a carriage or wagon and driver allows you to have total mobility, the cost of Hired help is cheap, When choosing your carriage consider looking into having a waist high side wall for you to utilize tip III with.

V. Use of Abundant Ammunition works with special material ammunition and the alternate ammo types, such as alchemist-fire bolts and Splitercloud arrows.

*edit history*
I.) Added more URLs
II.) Fixed some grammatical Errors, Flagged for movement to correct forum

Credits:
This is where I'll put all ideas brought in by others

Dustyboy(Me): Bows:I, II Crossbows: I, General: I, II, III, IV, V

[RedDogMT]

Dustyboy wrote:

1.) Bows

II. If you're ever able to acquire two additional arms You can then stack the entire Archery tree with the two weapon fighting tree. While this is simply a full build it is worth noting.

Minor clarification #1: You cannot pull this off without the Multiweapon Fighting feat...and it is a monster feat. Most GMs would not allow players access to those feats.

Dustyboy wrote:

2.) Crossbows

I. Use of the Burn!Burn!Burn! feat Applies to an alchemist-fire bolt, which gives the weapon a total of a +2d4 damage

Minor clarification #2: Keep in mind that you do need to be a goblin to take this feat.

While pointing out the available options for a weapon is an interesting view into what you can do, the restrictions/requirements of those options should not be overlooked.

[Cheapy]

Which limitations? The only one I know of is that archers destroy encounters too fast, and that's more a limitation on fun.

[cnetarian]

Cheapy wrote:

Which limitations? The only one I know of is that archers destroy encounters too fast, and that's more a limitation on fun.

Seconded, what are these limitations? The closest I can come is that there are a few techniques to shut down archery, but that's true of everything else.

[Nymor]

If i remember well, the 3 Kirin stile feats are appliable to ranged attacks.
Many talents like Clustered Shots and Snap Shot are ranged attack only or even bow only.

If you have access to polymorph school spells, you can polymorph in a tiny monstrous humanoid or undead, take a big bonus to your to hit, ac and ref and still do normal damage (ranged weapons come back to their normal dimensions after being shooted)

[Dustyboy]

RedDogMT wrote:

Dustyboy wrote:

1.) Bows

II. If you're ever able to acquire two additional arms You can then stack the entire Archery tree with the two weapon fighting tree. While this is simply a full build it is worth noting.

Minor clarification #1: You cannot pull this off without the Multiweapon Fighting feat...and it is a monster feat. Most GMs would not allow players access to those feats.

Dustyboy wrote:

2.) Crossbows

I. Use of the Burn!Burn!Burn! feat Applies to an alchemist-fire bolt, which gives the weapon a total of a +2d4 damage

Minor clarification #2: Keep in mind that you do need to be a goblin to take this feat.

While pointing out the available options for a weapon is an interesting view into what you can do, the restrictions/requirements of those options should not be overlooked.

Noted, I'll put that in. Though the tip will remain simply as many DM's allow these feats if you meet the prerequisites.

As for the goblin prerequisite, I should definitely put that disclaimer in it

Cheapy wrote:

Which limitations? The only one I know of is that archers destroy encounters too fast, and that's more a limitation on fun.

That doesn't give them unlimited potential, I'm looking for good solid variety here.

cnetarian wrote:

Cheapy wrote:

Which limitations? The only one I know of is that archers destroy encounters too fast, and that's more a limitation on fun.

Seconded, what are these limitations? The closest I can come is that there are a few techniques to shut down archery, but that's true of everything else.

Archers round per round deal a lot of damage, but they have many issues in the defense standpoint. Usually what i see as the biggest flaw with archery and it's power level is the fact that the bandits never say "WE NEED TO TAKE OUT THAT ARCHER!" This problem really stood out to me when I tried out 4e but i've noticed that in pathfinder we see a lack of chaos on the battlefield. Enemies often go for the tanky guy with the big sword.

On top of that we often see a higher round damage potential for actual melee characters, with their issue being movement and action economy.

If someone closes the gap on an archer said archer is usually in a world of hurt, this is especially true in lower levels.

Nymor wrote:

If i remember well, the 3 Kirin stile feats are appliable to ranged attacks.

Many talents like Clustered Shots and Snap Shot are ranged attack only or even bow only.

If you have access to polymorph school spells, you can polymorph in a tiny monstrous humanoid or undead, take a big bonus to your to hit, ac and ref and still do normal damage (ranged weapons come back to their normal dimensions after being shooted)

Those are good, i'll make the note shortly, my LoL que just popped up :P

[Gnomezrule]

RedDogMT wrote:

Dustyboy wrote:

1.) Bows

II. If you're ever able to acquire two additional arms You can then stack the entire Archery tree with the two weapon fighting tree. While this is simply a full build it is worth noting.

Minor clarification #1: You cannot pull this off without the Multiweapon Fighting feat...and it is a monster feat. Most GMs would not allow players access to those feats.

Dustyboy wrote:

2.) Crossbows

I. Use of the Burn!Burn!Burn! feat Applies to an alchemist-fire bolt, which gives the weapon a total of a +2d4 damage

Minor clarification #2: Keep in mind that you do need to be a goblin to take this feat.

While pointing out the available options for a weapon is an interesting view into what you can do, the restrictions/requirements of those options should not be overlooked.

Also just having 4 arms does not mean you can pull to bows at the same time. Notice the stance of an archer, pulling the string across their body. Body dynamics would have to be completely different.

[cnetarian]

Dustyboy wrote:

Achers round per round deal a lot of damage, but they have many issues in the defense standpoint. Usually what i see as the biggest flaw with archery and it's power level is the fact that the bandits never say "WE NEED TO TAKE OUT THAT ARCHER!" This problem really stood out to me when I tried out 4e but i've noticed that in pathfinder we see a lack of chaos on the battlefield. Enemies often go for the tanky guy with the big sword.

On top of that we often see a higher round damage potential for actual melee characters, with their issue being movement and action economy.

If someone closes the gap on an archer said archer is usually in a world of hurt, this is especially true in lower levels.

Why would an archer have any less defense than a melee character of the same class; they can wear the same armor, use the same magic items, usually have a higher DEX bonus, and get the same class based defenses? The only place ranged characters have problems keeping up with melee characters defenses is that most of them cannot use shields so they cannot have the AC of Sword&Board types, but neither can TWF or THW melee types. It might be an issue at low levels because ranged weapons are so expensive that ranged characters cannot afford mithril chain AND a masterwork composite longbow, but after a character can afford celestial armor is no good reason for a ranged character to have significantly weaker defenses than a melee character of the same class.

The only time I've seen an enemy next to a ranged put serious hurt on the ranged is when it was a specially chosen high DEX, combat reflexes with reach enemy (try an air elemental) and that wasn't because of a lack of defense ability by the ranged but because the enemy could make two AoOs for each attack the ranged could. This was not due to ranged characters having weak defenses but due to GM needing to shut down the ranged character and the player deciding not to be shut down, I doubt it is possible to create a character which cannot be shut down if the GM needs it. BTW it was not pretty and I almost killed the stupid gunslinger, some people just cannot take a hint, which is kinda sad when you realize that he gave me the idea by pulling a similar stunt on my character a few months earlier.

Yes, overall a ranged will have a slightly lower DPR than a melee built with the same skill using full attacks, but that is not a limitation. It is a tradeoff for not having to worry about constantly trying to get a full attack off, slightly less damage when full attacking in exchange for being able to full attack almost always.