Hey, yeah that would be cool, for a sneaky-type sorcerer.
I concur, a Shadow Bloodline would be sweet.
Though, given that is our first peak at the new Sorc, I would not be suprised that these were the only bloodlines available. Others that could exist, within the context of the Pathfinder setting would include: Daemonic, Shadow, Lycanthropic, Divine (a-la Favored Soul), Inevitable... The list could go on. :o)
I concur, a Shadow Bloodline would be sweet.
Though, given that is our first peak at the new Sorc, I would not be suprised that these were the only bloodlines available. Others that could exist, within the context of the Pathfinder setting would include: Daemonic, Shadow, Lycanthropic, Divine (a-la Favored Soul), Inevitable... The list could go on. :o)
Don't forget Giant (I know you didn't, but I'm keen on the idea). Given the role Giants played in Golarion's history, i'd be pretty sad not to see this bloodline either in the PRPG or in another supplement sometime in the future.
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Here is a very rough first cut for this.
Bonus Feats: Augment Summoning, Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Knowledge[planes]), Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Finesse
Bloodline Powers: The essence of Shadow is part of your very being, granting you unusual powers and luring you into the darkness.
Shadow Arcana: At 1st level, you add the following spells to your list of Spells Known: 1-unseen servant, 2-darkness, 3-deeper darkness, 4-shadow conjuration, 5-shadow evocation, 6-shadow walk, 7-greater shadow conjuration, 8-greater shadow evocation, 9-shades.
Darkvision (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, you can see up to 60 ft. in normal and magical darkness. If you already have this ability from another source (such as your race) then your range is increased to 90 ft. You also gain a +4 competency bonus to any skill checks or saving throws to detect or identify magical shadow spells or powers. At 9th level, your range increases to 90 ft. (or 120 ft. if you already have the 90 ft range) and your bonus increase to +6. At 15th level, you gain the ability to see normally under any lighting conditions, as well as into the Plane of Shadow, and your bonus increases to +8.
Cloak of Shadows (Su): Starting at 9th level, you gain the ability to grant yourself total concealment (as per greater invisibility) in any artificial lighting, including magical light such as continual flame, but not in daylight, or within the area of a daylight spell. This ability can be used for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. Starting at 12th level, you can extend this ability to up to six allies who are adjacent to you. Starting at 15th level, this ability functions in any lighting condition.
Walk The Dark Path (Su): Starting at 15th level, you can pass through the boundary of the Plane of Shadow to move from one point to another instantly. This ability functions like the spell dimension door, operates at your caster level, and can be used at will.
Shadow Affinity (Su): Starting at 20th level, you become a creature of pure shadows. You gain immunity to cold, and resistance 10 to acid, electricity, fire, and sonic attacks. Additionally, you cast spells at all times as if you were on the Plane of Shadow: all spells with the shadow descriptor are automatically maximized (although they do not require the higher spell level slot to cast), and shadow spells that mimic other spells are 10% more powerful than normal.
Okay, now, the post which I originally tried to put on this thread:
Shadow is neat, but so would a hag bloodline, or a titan bloodline, or . . . well. And the text is clear that "The following bloodlines represent only some of the possible sources of power that a sorcerer can draw upon."
So, if there's space, sure. But there's probably other stuff that's more important for the Pathfinder RPG.
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Darkvision (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, you can see up to 60 ft. in darkness. If you already have this ability from another source (such as your race) then your range is increased to 90 ft. At 9th level, this ability improves, allowing you to see in magical darkness (but not deeper darkness). At 15th level, you gain the ability to see under any lighting conditions including deeper darkness, and your range increases to 90 ft. (or 120 ft. if you already have the 90 ft. range). You also gain a +4 competency bonus to any skill checks or saving throws to detect or identify magical shadow spells or powers.
I like the bloodline. It should be noted, however, that under the Alpha 2 rules deeper darkness is pierced by normal darkvision. I like the Shadow Arcana power, it would be nice to see the other bloodlines offering something similar (except the arcane bloodline which adds extra spells known already)
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So, if there's space, sure. But there's probably other stuff that's more important for the Pathfinder RPG.
Not disagreeing there. If JB wanted just the absolute basics, he could have stuck with Abyssal, Arcane, Celestial, and Draconic, and leave the others for splatbooks or whatever.
By going all out and statting what I would consider to be rarer bloodlines -- Aberration, Fey, Undead, etc. -- it indicated that he wanted a wide variety of choices for Sorcerers right in the base book.
I don't know what his word limit is, but I do think that I'm more likely to want to play (or DM) a Shadow Sorcerer than an Aberrational Sorcerer.
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I like the bloodline. It should be noted, however, that under the Alpha 2 rules deeper darkness is pierced by normal darkvision. I like the Shadow Arcana power, it would be nice to see the other bloodlines offering something similar (except the arcane bloodline which adds extra spells known already)
Thanks. Edited.
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Okay, now, the post which I originally tried to put on this thread:
Shadow is neat, but so would a hag bloodline, or a titan bloodline, or . . . well. And the text is clear that "The following bloodlines represent only some of the possible sources of power that a sorcerer can draw upon."
So, if there's space, sure. But there's probably other stuff that's more important for the Pathfinder RPG.
Those are not really tied to any monster type or plane... Shadow, Undead, Fey, Demonic, Divine, etc., however are all monster types or related to a plane.
So what would be the potential backstory of having a shadow bloodline?
Really cool idea, by the way!
So what would be the potential backstory of having a shadow bloodline?
Really cool idea, by the way!
Shades, shadows, shadow magic experimentation, life altering event on the Plane of Shadow... Just to name a few.
Keep in mind, the Plane of Shadow is a reflection of out own plane, complete with its own shadowy versions of people living on the Prime Plane.
Love the concept of the Shadowblood Sorcerer. Could do the same thing with Axiomatic and Anarchic bloodlines. I see a lot of potential in the bloodlines for sorcerers. However, I dont think we should get too carried away with them in the core book. Would say no more than twelve bllodlines in the core book. They can always be added later in further supplements. Pretty much taint from any of the planes could be the basis for a sorcerer bloodline.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Those are not really tied to any monster type or plane... Shadow, Undead, Fey, Demonic, Divine, etc., however are all monster types or related to a plane.
Titan and (night) hag are related to specific planes, just like Abyssal/demon and Infernal/devil. (Demons and devils are not [in the SRD] "types" or "subtypes".)
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Darkvision (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, you can see up to 60 ft. in normal and magical darkness. If you already have this ability from another source (such as your race) then your range is increased to 90 ft. You also gain a +4 competency bonus to any skill checks or saving throws to detect or identify magical shadow spells or powers. At 9th level, your range increases to 90 ft. (or 120 ft. if you already have the 90 ft range) and your bonus increase to +6. At 15th level, you gain the ability to see normally under any lighting conditions, as well as into the Plane of Shadow, and your bonus increases to +8.
Some creatures, such as Svirfneblin, have darkvision to 120 ft. as a racial trait. Wouldn't just giving a +30 ft. to darkvision be sufficient, and remove this relatively confusing point?
I would consider giving the shadowline sorcerer a chance to ignore the miss chance given my incorporeals and/or creatures partially on the shadow plane, since the sorcerer has adapted to see that which is hidden.
Golem, or technomancer, or metalmage, sounds cool on the surface, but I definitely think that should be "splatbook", as opposed to "core".
Still, as a splatbook option for a bloodline of a sorceror who pulls a Collosus (from X-Men) and armors up by growing steel plates over his body is a really cool image. Growing/grafting weapons, dominating constructs (even golems, maybe limited duration), theres a lot of interesting ideas there.
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Some creatures, such as Svirfneblin, have darkvision to 120 ft. as a racial trait. Wouldn't just giving a +30 ft. to darkvision be sufficient, and remove this relatively confusing point?
In that case I would say that it wouldn't stack -- the Svirf Shadow Sorc would always have DV 120' (until 15th level when the range becomes effectively infinite). Svirfneblin aren't a standard PC race, I was primarily thinking of Dwarves, Gnomes, and Half-Orcs (as well as Drow and Goblins).
I would consider giving the shadowline sorcerer a chance to ignore the miss chance given my incorporeals and/or creatures partially on the shadow plane, since the sorcerer has adapted to see that which is hidden.
Do you mean undead Shadows?
Lest I be accused of being only negative, let me say that I *heart* the Shadow bloodline. Not only is theconcept solid, the abilities you've suggested look more like what bloodlines need to if they're going to matter.
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I really like the idea of shadow arcana much better than a simple at will ability. I would suggest addition Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus (Illusion) perhaps instead of Augment Summoning or Lightning Reflexes.
Here is a very rough first cut for this.
[spoiler]
Bonus Feats: Augment Summoning, Blind-Fight, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Knowledge[planes]), Skill Focus (Stealth), Weapon Finesse
Bloodline Powers: The essence of Shadow is part of your very being, granting you unusual powers and luring you into the darkness.
Shadow Arcana: At 1st level, you add the following spells to your list of Spells Known: 1-unseen servant, 2-darkness, 3-deeper darkness, 4-shadow conjuration, 5-shadow evocation, 6-shadow walk, 7-greater shadow conjuration, 8-greater shadow evocation, 9-shades.
Darkvision (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, you can see up to 60 ft. in normal and magical darkness. If you already have this ability from another source (such as your race) then your range is increased to 90 ft. You also gain a +4 competency bonus to any skill checks or saving throws to detect or identify magical shadow spells or powers. At 9th level, your range increases to 90 ft. (or 120 ft. if you already have the 90 ft range) and your bonus increase to +6. At 15th level, you gain the ability to see normally under any lighting conditions, as well as into the Plane of Shadow, and your bonus increases to +8.
Cloak of Shadows (Su): Starting at 9th level, you gain the ability to grant yourself total concealment (as per greater invisibility) in any artificial lighting, including magical light such as continual flame, but not in daylight, or within the area of a daylight spell. This ability can be used for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. Starting at 12th level, you can extend this ability to up to six allies who are adjacent to you. Starting at 15th level, this ability functions in any lighting condition.
Walk The Dark Path (Su): Starting at 15th level, you can pass through the boundary of the Plane of Shadow to move from one...
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*post eaten by the forum monster* Lets try this again.
I love the idea of the Shadow Bloodline. I was honestly suprised it wasnt already added when i read it. The added spells known would be a great idea and your ability ideas have alot of merit.
Taking it a step further, what if your bloodline affected the spells you cast more directly. shadow would add the shadow subtype to evocation/illusion spells. Abyssal would give the hellfire subtype to all fire spells and maybe a bonus to charm spells. Those are just two quick examples (i'm at work) of possibilities. Any thoughts?
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I really like the idea of shadow arcana much better than a simple at will ability. I would suggest addition Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus (Illusion) perhaps instead of Augment Summoning or Lightning Reflexes.
Excellent suggestion. I threw in LR because, in looking over the feat lists for the bloodlines in Alpha 2, I noted that each had one or more of the three save buff feats, and LR made the most sense for the shadowy sneaky mage I was envisioning.
I can no longer edit that post but here's an update (I dropped Augment Summoning and Weapon Finesse):
Bonus Feats: Blind-Fight, Greater Spell Focus (Illusion), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Silent Spell, Skill Focus (Knowledge[planes]), Skill Focus (Stealth), Spell Focus (Illusion)
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I should also note that I dropped unseen servant in there pretty much as a placeholder. I couldn't find a decent darkety dark 1st level spell in the online SRD. The other two I strongly considered were disguise self and silent image, but what would really go well there is a new 1st level spell with the shadow or darkness descriptor.
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In that case I would say that it wouldn't stack -- the Svirf Shadow Sorc would always have DV 120' (until 15th level when the range becomes effectively infinite). Svirfneblin aren't a standard PC race, I was primarily thinking of Dwarves, Gnomes, and Half-Orcs (as well as Drow and Goblins).
Alright, just wanted to check! You should still make a clarification to it just in case.
I should also note that I dropped unseen servant in there pretty much as a placeholder. I couldn't find a decent darkety dark 1st level spell in the online SRD. The other two I strongly considered were disguise self and silent image, but what would really go well there is a new 1st level spell with the shadow or darkness descriptor.
Delabarre, how about change the flavor of the bloodline ability for unseen servant. Instead of an invisible force, make it a hazy shadowy presence that moves things. Keep the same effect. Basically, "this ability works as Unseen Servant, but a perceptive person might see a shadowy presence move the object if they make a DC20 Perception check" or something like that.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Yes this is a great idea! Please Paizo make this happen.
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Delabarre, how about change the flavor of the bloodline ability for unseen servant. Instead of an invisible force, make it a hazy shadowy presence that moves things. Keep the same effect. Basically, "this ability works as Unseen Servant, but a perceptive person might see a shadowy presence move the object if they make a DC20 Perception check" or something like that.
That's a possibility. I was personally thinking about a shadowy defense spell that gives a +2 deflection bonus to AC and a +2 to Stealth checks.
I really like some of the ideas being thrown out here for bloodlines.
However, for sake of page count, I think it ought to be limited to the same number of schools of magic for wizards, giving both classes the same basic number of options to choose from.
Of course, we could always have a little contest to vote on what would be the most popular set. ;)
I'll bite, I kind of like this one, but they could always go with something similar to the "umbral" bloodline like the one in Dragon Compendium Volume One (obviously modified), which was a catch all for shadow/ethereal attuned sorcerers.
Way i see it is if there is a planetouched race associated with given plane then it can also spawn sorcerers linked to it, either due to blood or exposure to the energies of it.
I have to agree they should keep the number of bloodlines to the same as schools in the core book. Can always add more with web enhancements, setting book and suplemental books.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
