I'm making an unarmed strike focused gestalt diviner wizard/lore warden fighter with master of many forms monk thrown in for a Wrath of the Righteous game and I'm considering going a trip focused path.
The general wisdom I've heard is that CMD starts decently attainable but becomes more and more unattainable as CR goes up with Balors at CMD 54 at CR 20.
What level range is trip generally viable in your opinion?
I'll have improved trip at level 2 and lots of feats like vicious stomp greater trip, tripping strike as I go along.
There is a Rite Publishing level 1 swift action 1 round duration divination called Down and Out that gives a +10 on the next trip attempt which I'm running by the DM which I'm hoping will extend the viability of tripping for a few levels.
Also any other big considerations for tripping? Actively flying creatures and mariliths are immune I know but I expect I'll be in punching range of a lot of stuff on the ground during the campaign.
Things with 4 legs get a big bouns, and things with no legs can't be...like snakes for example, and swarms and ooze.
It's hard to put a firm level on it, but it's around the point when most enemies your DM can reasonably throw at you can fly, gain legs, lose legs, or start getting really big.
Things with 4 legs get a big bouns, and things with no legs can't be...like snakes for example, and swarms and ooze.
Technically you can trip snakes (flip it on it's back). Snakes don't have the "can't be tripped" note.
Things with 4 legs get a big bouns, and things with no legs can't be...like snakes for example, and swarms and ooze.Technically you can trip snakes (flip it on it's back). Snakes don't have the "can't be tripped" note.
But snake demons with humanoid upper torsos do have that quality and you can't flip them on their back. :)
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Things with 4 legs get a big bouns, and things with no legs can't be...like snakes for example, and swarms and ooze.Technically you can trip snakes (flip it on it's back). Snakes don't have the "can't be tripped" note.
Not sure what you're looking at; snakes can't be tripped.
I may be able to offer some insight in this question. I played a trip focused fighter up to level 18 in a Kingmaker campaign that actually just ended a few weeks ago.
As a fighter I was able to use a reach weapon, which helped the tripping schtick quite a bit. If you have any way of getting access to enlarge person to gain the 10' reach on your monk that would be ideal.
From the perspective of my fighter, in the earlier levels (say level 1-5) I was reasonably effective, but often got outclassed in combat by the party Barbarian and Synthesist. Those characters were focused more on raw damage and were putting out obscene amounts of DPS in the lower levels. To the point where they were dropping foes just by reducing them to zero hit points faster than I could consider bothering with wasting an action using a CMB attack on something. What's the point when everything just dies in one round from the pouncing synth and power attacking barb?
However, after level 6 the trip tactic came into its own. Other members of the party started picking up the Outflank teamwork feat, and Improved Trip offered attacks of opportunity to everyone in melee range when a trip went off. Our tactic of fighter/barb flanking started to become *extremely* effective around this level, and it never dropped off the whole campaign. Any monster we could set up a flank against would get demolished. Trip was a big part of that combo, along with high crit range weapons and Outflank being the other part.
At the higher levels it is true that you more often will run into opponents who fly or who are too large to be tripped. So you do need to have other ways to be effective in combat. Make sure your monk can still put out reasonable damage with just normal attacks for the times when tripping is impossible.
For reference, at level 18 my character had a unbuffed +49 to Trip CMB.
Once you account for flanking, bard song, haste, favored enemy and smite evil it was not unheard of for my actual in-combat bonus to be on the other side of +70. So yes, even at the higher levels it is still very possible to overcome monsters CMD numbers.
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Important feats for tripping:
Combat Expertise (Prerequisite)
Improved Trip
Greater Trip
Combat Reflexes (Not strictly necessary, but useful since your trips will provoke)
Fury's Fall (add Dex to trip CMB)
Also, any feats to give you plus to hit are nice since that translates directly to higher CMB. Like Weapon Focus and Outflank.
Tripping Strike is decent, but I don't think it's as important as pumping your +hit bonus. I considered taking it on my fighter, but decided that anything which was trippable I would just be going straight for the trip CMB from the beginning anyways, so why bother?
Not sure what you're looking at; snakes can't be tripped.Things with 4 legs get a big bouns, and things with no legs can't be...like snakes for example, and swarms and ooze.Technically you can trip snakes (flip it on it's back). Snakes don't have the "can't be tripped" note.
Hmmm, Animal companion Snakes don't have that note...odd.
Once you account for flanking, bard song, haste, favored enemy and smite evil it was not unheard of for my actual in-combat bonus to be on the other side of +70.True strike, flanking, bard songs, haste, favored enemy, and smite evil all have no impact on any form of CMB or CMD; trip included.
Yes they to, the Trip roll is an attack roll.