Belier's Bite + Improved Unarmed Strikes + Monk (Brawler's) weapons

[ShadowDax]

If I were to use a Sansetsukon or Emei Piercer combined with brawler's flurry, would I be able to do the bleed damage of Belier's strike together?

The idea is to do the damage of strength and a half with a d10 weapon (the Sansetsukon) and get the benefit of dealing a d4 of bleed damage.

Mind you, I am taking a -4 to hit with the Brawler class as opposed to the Monk with a -2 to hit.

If I remember right, the Emei Piercer is a ring with a swiveling spike on it. Can I carry a weapon with that hand and use it in combat wearing the Emei Piercer with out ill effects?

The Emei Piercer gives my Brawler a 19+ crit range and makes my Improved Unarmed Strikes Piercing for DR purposes.

[ShadowDax]

I have been finding conflicting opinions but nothing definitive on these subjects.

I believe the Emei Piercer may take up a ring slot instead of t a hand slot. It is a spike on a ring after all. The description does not say whether it does or not, not that I can find anyway.

I surmise these subjects is not big in most neighborhoods and that is why the answer is not well known.

You get the feats and so on when you use Improved Unarmed Strikes; However, does your attack with Improved Unarmed Strikes have to be bear handed when using Belier's Bite?

Belier's Bite, comes from the Chiliax book.

[Nocte ex Mortis]

Well, I would assume that using a bear hand would help, but the idea of the Feat is to cause your bare hands to shred flesh and leave gashes and tears that won't stop bleeding normally. Pretty sure you could use it with Monk weapons, but I'm not 100% on that.

As for the Piercer, it's really only taking up one finger. You have 8-9 more to wear a ring on.

[EvilPaladin]

1:Belier's Bite does not interact with the Emei Piercer or the Sansetsukon, only the Unarmed Strike.

Belier's Bite wrote:

When you damage an opponent with an unarmed strike, you deal an extra 1d4 bleed damage

This says nothing about any weapon other then Unarmed Strikes.

2:Weapons don't take up Magic Item slots IIRC. The Ring slots aren't actually how many Rings you can have on, but how many you can use for magical properties[like invisibility]. The Emei Piercer is only on a ring for flavor pretty much, and doesn't effect your ring slot in any way because the magical part is the spike, not the ring.

3:The Unarmed Strike does not need to be bear handed[that would require druid levels :-)]. It can't be an attack with a weapon other then unarmed strikes [No Brass Knuckles, Cestapods[whatever the plural of Cestus is], Emei Piercers, etc, just your unarmed strike] in order to benefit from unarmed strike damage increase[from Monk/Brawler] and things that are specific to Unarmed Strikes[like this feat]. It can, however, be an attack from a hand with a weapon like a Cestus or Brass Knuckles in them, but you do not gain any benefit from having a weapon there.

[TGMaxMaxer]

The Emei Piercer is a weapon.
Without a special line stating otherwise, it takes up that hand.

The answer is very clearly spelled out, all the ring does is make it immune to disarm. It also makes your unarmed strikes piercing instead of bludgeoning.

You could not use both an Emei Piercer and a Sansetsukon at the same time without an ability to use a 2handed weapon in 1 hand, or a third arm.

The brawler's flurry has the same language as the monk flurry, so even when using a 2 handed weapon you only get single Str damage.

ACG Playtest wrote:

A brawler applies her full Strength bonus to her damage rolls for all successful attacks made with brawler’s flurry,

whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a
weapon wielded in both hands. A brawler may substitute
disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed
attacks as part of brawler’s f lurry. A brawler with natural
weapons cannot use such weapons as part of brawler’s
f lurry, nor can she make natural attacks in addition to
her brawler’s flurry attacks.

Also, until the final version comes out, the Emei Piercer would only do a d3 damage 19-20x2 crit, since the playtest version doesn't scale monk weapon damage like it does unarmed strikes. (although it has been released that monk weapons/close weapons will scale, it isn't clear if it will be as fast as unarmed strikes do).

You can't combine Beliar's Bite with a weapon attack, only an unarmed strike. So neither weapon allows this.

[ShadowDax]

AAh, I see, people were putting strength x's 1.5 when using the Sansetsukon with flurry of blows when I ran PFS mods for them.

It is the Brawler I am doing research for not the Monk. I do not know the Monk class very well.

Thanks all, for clearing up the Belier's Bite along with a weapon and using a two handed weapon with a flurry of either a Monk or Brawler.

So, it is either use one or the other when using Brawler's Flurry, a Monk weapon, Imp Unarmed Strikes and Belier's Bite.

Both Brass Knuckles and the Emei Piercer (EP) say you do damage of Unarmed Strikes. I presume the d3 is because most Unarmed Strikes do a d3 damage.

I was thinking the phrase, "...turns Unarmed Strikes into Peircing damage." meant the EP did the damage of the PC's Unarmed Strikes.

Brass Knuckles state, "...alow you to do lethal damage with an Unarmed Strike." Many others on the message boards post the same that you do the damage of the character.

I don't see why the EP would not be included in doing the damage of the character's Unarmed Strikes.

[Nocte ex Mortis]

Brass knuckles were, at one time, a great choice for Monks, as it allowed them to actually use their neck slot for something other than an Amulet of Mighty Fists. Paizo apparently disagreed with this, as the Knuckles no longer scale with Monk damage at all. They do d3 damage for Monks, and potentially more for Brawlers. (Which is another can of worms all its own.)

The current ruling ends up with a situation where Knuckles are no longer worthwhile, and even actively detrimental, to use with a Monk.

There may be a little bit of bitterness on my part here, as it's very much a case of "This class gets to be better at basically everything another class is built around, and we don't care."

[TGMaxMaxer]

They have errata'd Brass Knuckles to not get the scaling damage because of the Sacred Cow AoMF pricing, if you could use brass knuckles and still get your unarmed strike damage while only paying single weapon costs it would be "too cheap" to make anyone buy the AoMF anymore.

Emei Piercer is the same thing, it has a weapon damage listed (although I agree that it should be the same as brass knuckles and get unarmed strike damage but with a different type) so that is what it does.

[Nocte ex Mortis]

This, of course, was completely ignoring the fact that the AoMF was the best thing since sliced bread for anything that had Natural Attacks.

Nope! Couldn't possibly give the masters of martial arts and unarmed combat more than one option to enhance their strikes magically!

[ShadowDax]

Wow! Talk about sacred cows. Don't tell me the Takki Kagi (spelling?) does not act like a bukler or give you the ability to diss arm a bladed weapon without provoking an attack with its additional bonuses.