Does one need a +3 weapon to by-pass cold iron or would a +1 holy weapon also work?
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You need the Enhancement Bonus, not an EQUIVALENT bonus.
A +1 Bane weapon vs the subtype it targets would work (since it raises the Enhancement by 2), likewise a +1 Furious weapon wielded by a Raging user.
But not, say, a +1 Agile Flaming weapon or some such.
Thomas Long is correct: You need a flat + to bypass cold iron/silver, adamantite (or whatever its called), and alignment DR.
As a side note, should you come across mythic/epic DR, that no longer holds true: All enhancement, not just flat enhancement, applies for that as long as you have a +6 total between the two.
Thanks dudes!
Kinda hampers how DR makes something live a little longer or laugh at your archer who is fighting a skeleton with DR 5/ Bludgeoning
To be fair the feat Clustered Shots already wipes the implied smirk of the hypothetical skeleton's face.
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It is kinda a flawed system, I guess it is more based for society play?
Kinda hampers how DR makes something live a little longer or laugh at your archer who is fighting a skeleton with DR 5/ Bludgeoning
Not really. And there are both feats and items that can make damage type DR a joke.
Clustered Shots
Blunt Arrows
just for two for the archer. And the blunt arrows cost the same as cold iron arrows. Not to mention the joy of weapon blanches.
It all comes down to the party being able to figure out the target's DR information.
And, to be honest, you find archers carrying around a batch of quivers with different kinds of arrows, blanched with different coatings. Which isn't much different than the fighter/melee type with his golf bag of weapons.
I suspect that the new feat, from the Undead Slayer's Handbook, Weapon Versatility, is going to see a lot of play...
I suspect that the new feat, from the Undead Slayer's Handbook, Weapon Versatility, is going to see a lot of play...
What does that one do?
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Fair, I just mean that the +x enchant to beat DR is kinda cheesy to me, it almost feels like it increases a PCs WBL because they only need a +3 to bead cold iron, not the +2000g to enchant a cold iron wpn to begin with.
So making a cold iron long sword +3 would cost 15g (sword)+ 300g (master work) + 2000g because it is cold iron + +3 enchant 18,000 = 20,315
a +3 Long sword costs 15g (sword) + 300g (master work) + 18000g (enchant)
= 18,315g
I know its only 2000g difference but it just seems cheap.
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I suspect that the new feat, from the Undead Slayer's Handbook, Weapon Versatility, is going to see a lot of play...What does that one do?
Basically, if your BAB is below +5, you can spend a swift action to change your grip on your weapon, changing the damage type between B, P or S, as you desire.
Once you have a +5 BAB, it becomes a free action to change your grip.
"I full attack."
"Attack one, I will do normal S damage. Did it all seem to go through? No?"
"Okay, free action, change to B, attack two. Did it all seem to go through this time? Yes? Thanks!"
So, as your iteratives mount, and you add in Haste or equivalents, it doesn't take long, even without Knowledge, to figure out what kind, if any, damage type DR your target has.
Of course, for some melee types, with immense damage throughputs, DR seldom matters much, anyhow.
For fun I was considering a Knife Master Rogue build and I was looking for a way to make my kukri's do bashing damage for Sap Master... huh, now I can. I think a feat like this will have much more build combo uses than the use you are describing in the long run.
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Fair, I just mean that the +x enchant to beat DR is kinda cheesy to me, it almost feels like it increases a PCs WBL because they only need a +3 to bead cold iron, not the +2000g to enchant a cold iron wpn to begin with.
So making a cold iron long sword +3 would cost 15g (sword)+ 300g (master work) + 2000g because it is cold iron + +3 enchant 18,000 = 20,315
a +3 Long sword costs 15g (sword) + 300g (master work) + 18000g (enchant)
= 18,315gI know its only 2000g difference but it just seems cheap.
Ummm, you should compare it to the real situation, which is entirely different.
+3 weapon, and a non-magical, probably non-masterwork, cold iron backup weapon.
So, all you are paying for the cold iron weapon was, worse case scenario, 100 gp for a cold iron greatsword. If it needs to be magical, oil of magic weapon for 50 gp, if you don't have some other way to do it, like the Magus Arcane Pool, or a friendly spellcaster.
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For fun I was considering a Knife Master Rogue build and I was looking for a way to make my kukri's do bashing damage for Sap Master... huh, now I can. I think a feat like this will have much more build combo uses than the use you are describing in the long run.
Believe me, I was just describing one, simple, use for it.
For a Lore Warden Fighter, who odds on already knows what kind of DR his target has, it is just icing on the cake.
For any melee type, it is a way to reduce the golf bag of weapons, and, in the long run, save money on extra weapons, past your spare, so you can have a nastier primary weapon, or a better backup weapon.
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Thomas Long is correct: You need a flat + to bypass cold iron/silver, adamantite (or whatever its called), and alignment DR.
As a side note, should you come across mythic/epic DR, that no longer holds true: All enhancement, not just flat enhancement, applies for that as long as you have a +6 total between the two.
Hmm... So if you have a +2 furious courageous weapon, and you rage, it bypasses Mythic / epic? That feels a little... wrong.
Hmm... So if you have a +2 furious courageous weapon, and you rage, it bypasses Mythic / epic? That feels a little... wrong.Thomas Long is correct: You need a flat + to bypass cold iron/silver, adamantite (or whatever its called), and alignment DR.
As a side note, should you come across mythic/epic DR, that no longer holds true: All enhancement, not just flat enhancement, applies for that as long as you have a +6 total between the two.
Yet that's how it works.
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chaoseffect wrote:Thomas Long is correct: You need a flat + to bypass cold iron/silver, adamantite (or whatever its called), and alignment DR.
As a side note, should you come across mythic/epic DR, that no longer holds true: All enhancement, not just flat enhancement, applies for that as long as you have a +6 total between the two.
Hmm... So if you have a +2 furious courageous weapon, and you rage, it bypasses Mythic / epic? That feels a little... wrong.
I feel the same way, but I think it is more balance for society play, can someone confirm this?
I feel the same way, but I think it is more balance for society play, can someone confirm this?
chaoseffect wrote:Thomas Long is correct: You need a flat + to bypass cold iron/silver, adamantite (or whatever its called), and alignment DR.
As a side note, should you come across mythic/epic DR, that no longer holds true: All enhancement, not just flat enhancement, applies for that as long as you have a +6 total between the two.
Hmm... So if you have a +2 furious courageous weapon, and you rage, it bypasses Mythic / epic? That feels a little... wrong.
Here you go.
DR/Epic: A type of damage reduction, DR/epic can be overcome only by a weapon with an enhancement bonus of +6 or greater. Weapons with special abilities also count as epic for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction if the total bonus value of all of their abilities (including the enhancement bonus) is +6 or greater.
What I was asking is the way PF changed how bypassing DR works, is this because they do PFS? Or just because it makes it easier to bypass DR for ease in the world of Golarion?
Bypassing DR(non epic) has not changed. What I quoted only applies to mythic DR.
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Raltus wrote:What I was asking is the way PF changed how bypassing DR works, is this because they do PFS? Or just because it makes it easier to bypass DR for ease in the world of Golarion?
Bypassing DR(non epic) has not changed. What I quoted only applies to mythic DR.
I didn't know it applied like that back in 3.5
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In 3.5 you had to carry a golf bag of weapons to cover all the different possibilities!
Mythic/epic DR rules come from Mythic Adventurers. The rules for base DR are Core Rule Book, page 562, listed under the description of DR in the section on special abilities.
In that case I have to disagree with the majority opinion; the table from the core rulebook states "weapon enhancement bonus equivalent."
There would be no need to include the word equivalent unless extra modifiers i.e. keen with a +2 price mod counted towards the total +3 enhancement bonus.
This has come up before. It is poor wording. It is saying the DR on the left is equaled by the bonus on the right. If your interpretation were correct then the rule for bypassing epic DR would not have needed for mythic/epic to be changed for the purpose of bypassing it.
Also when text and table disagree the text trumps table. So even if they did disagree the following would apply
: Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment.
Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).
Weapons with an enhancement bonus of +3 or greater can ignore some types of damage reduction, regardless of their actual material or alignment. The following table shows what type of enhancement bonus is needed to overcome some common types of damage reduction.
Note that it say enhancement bonus and nothing about special weapon abilities unlike the mythic DR.
This has come up before. It is poor wording. It is saying the DR on the left is equaled by the bonus on the right. If your interpretation were correct then the rule for bypassing epic DR would not have needed for mythic/epic to be changed for the purpose of bypassing it.Actually if my interpretation were correct then the newer wording for bypassing epic DR would reinforce the opinion and trump an older typo in the text which was correct in the table. If the table's not correct then there's a consistency issue in the rules.
It not a consistency issue. There is a "clear wording" issue since the table should not have use the word "equivalent".
Honestly I kind of want them to errata it to be equivalent, but part of me that likes for things to be difficult does not want it to change.
It's a consistency issue because one set of rules does not agree with another set of rules governing the same subject.
As for things being difficult, there's some merit to that but theoretically the price modifiers were determined based on the idea that the different special abilities are equivalent to a +x enchantment bonus so that there would be no reason to make things more difficult.
An errata would be nice either way.
The bestiary has you requiring a direct +6. The mythic rules made it easier. Both rules are still in affect because they wanted to let the GM decide instead of forcing him to go with the newer mythic rules.
That is why the bestiary was not errata'd to use the mythic way to overcome DR.
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If you mean the problem is with the table vs text I do agree that should be fixed.