Question regarding pregen characters and credits

[Neongelion]

I gotta be missing something here. I read in the PFS Guide that "credit" can be transferred from chronicle sheets that belong to pregens you used to another character (barring certain restrictions regarding using credit from higher level pregens on low level characters, etc.). So just to clarify, what exactly can you transfer from a 1st level pregen character's chronicle sheet to a normal, 1st level character? Gold, gp, prestige?

While I'm at it: what exactly is transferable between chronicle sheets from different characters? I know gold isn't, nor is prestige. Is XP?

[Preston Hudson]

Neongelion wrote:

I gotta be missing something here. I read in the PFS Guide that "credit" can be transferred from chronicle sheets that belong to pregens you used to another character (barring certain restrictions regarding using credit from higher level pregens on low level characters, etc.). So just to clarify, what exactly can you transfer from a 1st level pregen character's chronicle sheet to a normal, 1st level character? Gold, gp, prestige?

While I'm at it: what exactly is transferable between chronicle sheets from different characters? I know gold isn't, nor is prestige. Is XP?

On a 1st level pregen, you are able to apply the entire chronicle to a new 1st level character. This includes the XP, PP (Prestige), and Gold Earned.

On a pregen of higher level, you actually have two options. You can hold the chronicle on a character until the character reaches the level of the pregen played or apply it to a brand new level one character with a reduction in gold to 500 gp.

I hope this helps.

[Neongelion]

Preston Hudson wrote:

Neongelion wrote:

I gotta be missing something here. I read in the PFS Guide that "credit" can be transferred from chronicle sheets that belong to pregens you used to another character (barring certain restrictions regarding using credit from higher level pregens on low level characters, etc.). So just to clarify, what exactly can you transfer from a 1st level pregen character's chronicle sheet to a normal, 1st level character? Gold, gp, prestige?

While I'm at it: what exactly is transferable between chronicle sheets from different characters? I know gold isn't, nor is prestige. Is XP?

On a 1st level pregen, you are able to apply the entire chronicle to a new 1st level character. This includes the XP, PP (Prestige), and Gold Earned.

On a pregen of higher level, you actually have two options. You can hold the chronicle on a character until the character reaches the level of the pregen played or apply it to a brand new level one character with a reduction in gold to 500 gp.

I hope this helps.

I see, thank you!

Now, is XP transferable between different characters?

[Preston Hudson]

Only if you play a pregen. Once assigned to a regular character, it cannot be transferred.

[Kigvan]

Preston Hudson wrote:

On a pregen of higher level, you actually have two options. You can hold the chronicle on a character until the character reaches the level of the pregen played or apply it to a brand new level one character with a reduction in gold to 500 gp.

I hope this helps.

The reduce gold to 500gp doesn't have to go to a brand new level 1, any level 1 will do. This was changed in the season 5 guide I believe.

[SCPRedMage]

Kigvan wrote:

Preston Hudson wrote:

On a pregen of higher level, you actually have two options. You can hold the chronicle on a character until the character reaches the level of the pregen played or apply it to a brand new level one character with a reduction in gold to 500 gp.

I hope this helps.

The reduce gold to 500gp doesn't have to go to a brand new level 1, any level 1 will do. This was changed in the season 5 guide I believe.

You are correct, on both counts.

Keep in mind that technically the credit from a level one pregen must still go to a brand new level one character; some people will invoke the first level retraining rules to get around this ("I'm not playing a pregen, I'm playing my own character that's exactly the same!"), but if you do, keep in mind that means you have to actually buy the same equipment the pregen has, so when "rebuilding", you don't get back any money from consumables the pregen had that you may have used.

[Akerlof]

You never really get "chronicle sheets that belong to pregens." The chronicle sheet goes to the character number you assign it to. So, if you play two sessions with Kyra and assign both of those chronicle sheets to your -1 character, when you build that character it gets everything that was on those chronicle sheets. Kyra never was "your" character, there's no rebuilding involved, the credit was applied directly to the character number you wrote on tracking sheet.

Conversely, once you've got a signed chronicle sheet with a character number on it, you cannot apply it to another character. If you play "The Confirmation" with Kyra and apply it to your -1 character, then play "Black waters" with Kyra again, but assign it to your -2 character, you now have two characters, each with 1 xp and all the other stuff associated with the appropriate chronicle sheet. You cannot later choose to build a character and move the -2 chronicle sheet over to it, giving it 2 xp et. al. to start out with.

You have to assign a character number to a chronicle sheet when you earn it. Forever after, that chronicle sheet and everything associated with it belongs to that character number.

SCPRedMage wrote:

Keep in mind that technically the credit from a level one pregen must still go to a brand new level one character; some people will invoke the first level retraining rules to get around this ("I'm not playing a pregen, I'm playing my own character that's exactly the same!"), but if you do, keep in mind that means you have to actually buy the same equipment the pregen has, so when "rebuilding", you don't get back any money from consumables the pregen had that you may have used.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Where does it say that in the Guide to Organized Play?

Guide to Organized Play, Page 6 wrote:

If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters available at Paizo.com/pathfindersociety or from your local event coordinator. If you play a 1st-level pregenerated character, you can apply the credit for her first adventure to a newly created character of your very own. If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. You may not apply a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher, as you should have used this character for the scenario instead. The one exception is if you have multiple Chronicle sheets from pregenerated characters, they are applied to your character’s Chronicle sheet stack all at once when your character reaches the appropriate level, even if this would advance your character several levels. You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with the amount of gp gained reduced to 500 gp (or 250 gp for characters using the slow advancement track). You do not lose access to any of the Prestige Points, boons, or items listed on the Chronicle sheets that were earned during the adventure. Any equipment that’s listed on the pregenerated character sheet may only be sold to clear conditions such as death during the play of a sanctioned event, and any remaining gold does not carry over at the end of the adventure.

So, clarified rule:

Pregen credit can go to a new level 1 character.
Pregen credit can go to a character that has never been played but already has multiple chronicle sheets applied to it.
Pregen credit can go to a character who is lower level than the pregen, though the character has to wait until the level of the pregen in order to get the benefit.
Pregen credit cannot go to a currently built character "at the level of the pregen or higher."

Hmmm, the "You may not apply a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher, as you should have used this character for the scenario instead" verbiage was not present in version 4.3 of the Guide, and I missed it.

<edit: Most of the following is wrong.>
You do not have to apply every chronicle sheet from a level 1 pregen to a new level 1 character. The chronicle sheet can be applied to any character that can legally play the scenario:

If I only have a level 2 Wizard and we're playing "Rise of the Goblin Guild" at sub tier 1-2 with 4 other Wizards and a Bard, I can most certainly play Amiri in the scenario and then apply the credit to my Wizard. Just like I could play the Level 4 Amiri instead of my level 5 Wizard with the same party at sub tier 4-5 and apply the credit immediately. (Assuming the party APL is appropriate.*)<edit: should have checked the guide myself.> Also, if I have 2xp of GM credit on my -11 character but no character built and get pulled in to fill out a table of "The Confirmation," I can play Seelah and assign the credit to my -11 character. I don't have to start a -12 character or account for the torches that I burned in the scenario against my wealth.

(*I could _not_ use a level 1 Amiri instead of my level 2 Wizard to play up at 4-5 and immediately get the credit without fear of death since I have to play the pregen at the most appropriate level.)

[SCPRedMage]

Akerlof wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Where does it say that in the Guide to Organized Play?

Here's the rules about applying chronicles from pregens.

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play pg. 6 wrote:

If you play a 1st-level pregenerated character, you can apply the credit for her first adventure to a newly created character of your very own. If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. You may not apply a Chronicle sheet earned with a pregenerated character to a character that was already at the level of the pregenerated character or higher, as you should have used this character for the scenario instead. The one exception is if you have multiple Chronicle sheets from pregenerated characters, they are applied to your character’s Chronicle sheet stack all at once when your character reaches the appropriate level, even if this would advance your character several levels. You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with the amount of gp gained reduced to 500 gp (or 250 gp for characters using the slow advancement track).

Bolded the relevant parts.

Note that when it talks about chronicles from a "1st-level pregenerated character", it specifies you apply it to a "newly created character of your very own", but when it talks about reducing a chronicle from a non-1st-level pregen, it does not include the words "newly created".

Also note that it specifically calls out that you can NOT apply a pregen chronicle to a character the same level or higher than the pregen, so you could most certainly NOT apply a chronicle from a first level Amiri to your own second level wizard, nor from a fourth level Amiri to a fifth level wizard.

[Fromper]

Wow. I never noticed that. So you're not allowed to play with a level 4 or 7 pregen just to use a different character than your own, if you have one in that level range.

Among other things, this means that someone with a level 10+ character and no characters in the 5-9 range can't play 5-9 adventures with a level 7 pregen and apply it to a lower level character.

Given that I've seen this done dozens of times (quite possibly over 100), and there were venture-officers at many of those tables, I'd say this qualifies as one of the most misunderstood rules in PFS. But as SCPRedMage points out, it's right there in the Guide. Most of us just never read it and payed that much attention.

[Sniggevert]

Fromper wrote:

Wow. I never noticed that. So you're not allowed to play with a level 4 or 7 pregen just to use a different character than your own, if you have one in that level range.

Among other things, this means that someone with a level 10+ character and no characters in the 5-9 range can't play 5-9 adventures with a level 7 pregen and apply it to a lower level character.

Given that I've seen this done dozens of times (quite possibly over 100), and there were venture-officers at many of those tables, I'd say this qualifies as one of the most misunderstood rules in PFS. But as SCPRedMage points out, it's right there in the Guide. Most of us just never read it and payed that much attention.

No...it means you can't play a 5-9 with a level 7 pregen and apply the credit to a character of yours that is level 7 or higher, as you should have been playing that character if you wanted that character to have the scenario credit.

You are still free to apply it to a level 1 character, or hold it for a level 1-6 character that you have though.

EDIT: Edited to correct level range of characters...

[Fromper]

You're right. I misread that part. It's only the character you apply it to that counts for not being able to play the pregen, not all your PCs. But I've still seen people play pregens instead of their own characters on a few occasions when they could have played their PC, in violation of this rule.

[Akerlof]

It's a change from version 4 to version 5 of the guide. See my edits above.

[The Great Rinaldo!]

Fromper wrote:

You're right. I misread that part. It's only the character you apply it to that counts for not being able to play the pregen, not all your PCs. But I've still seen people play pregens instead of their own characters on a few occasions when they could have played their PC, in violation of this rule.

You may still be misreading ... you can play a pregen even if your own character is legal for the table. You simply cannot then give the chronicle to that character, you must give it to a character below the level of the scenario you played.

Example: I want to play #9-99 Death by Pie, a tier 5-9. I have my -1 character, Bob, at level 5, and my -2 character, Joe, at level 3.

I can play Bob.
I can play a level 7 pregen and apply it to Joe, held until level 7.
I can play a level 7 pregen and apply it to my as-yet nonexistent -3 character, reducing the gold to 500.

I cannot play a pregen and apply it to Bob, as Bob could have played it.

Does that make sense?

[Sniggevert]

Tony Lindman wrote:

Fromper wrote:

You're right. I misread that part. It's only the character you apply it to that counts for not being able to play the pregen, not all your PCs. But I've still seen people play pregens instead of their own characters on a few occasions when they could have played their PC, in violation of this rule.

You may still be misreading ... you can play a pregen even if your own character is legal for the table. You simply cannot then give the chronicle to that character, you must give it to a character below the level of the scenario you played.

Example: I want to play #9-99 Death by Pie, a tier 5-9. I have my -1 character, Bob, at level 5, and my -2 character, Joe, at level 3.

I can play Bob.
I can play a level 7 pregen and apply it to Joe, held until level 7.
I can play a level 7 pregen and apply it to my as-yet nonexistent -3 character, reducing the gold to 500.

I cannot play a pregen and apply it to Bob, as Bob could have played it.

Does that make sense?

Actually, you CAN apply it to Bob, even though Bob is in tier for the scenario, because Bob is not already the level of the pre-gen (i.e. 7th). You have to hold the chronicle till Bob hits 7th, instead of applying it right now as would happen if Bob actually played through the scenario instead of, say, Kyra...

[Fromper]

Yup. In that example, you can play Kyra and apply the credit to Bob. But if you had a level 8 character (Jack), you couldn't play Kyra and give the chronicle to Jack.

But I've seen that done. Maybe. I know that I've seen people with characters in tier intentionally choose to play a pregen instead, but I'm not sure which characters they've given the credit to each time.

[Neongelion]

Akerlof wrote:

You never really get "chronicle sheets that belong to pregens." The chronicle sheet goes to the character number you assign it to. So, if you play two sessions with Kyra and assign both of those chronicle sheets to your -1 character, when you build that character it gets everything that was on those chronicle sheets. Kyra never was "your" character, there's no rebuilding involved, the credit was applied directly to the character number you wrote on tracking sheet.

Conversely, once you've got a signed chronicle sheet with a character number on it, you cannot apply it to another character. If you play "The Confirmation" with Kyra and apply it to your -1 character, then play "Black waters" with Kyra again, but assign it to your -2 character, you now have two characters, each with 1 xp and all the other stuff associated with the appropriate chronicle sheet. You cannot later choose to build a character and move the -2 chronicle sheet over to it, giving it 2 xp et. al. to start out with.

You have to assign a character number to a chronicle sheet when you earn it. Forever after, that chronicle sheet and everything associated with it belongs to that character number.

SCPRedMage wrote:

Keep in mind that technically the credit from a level one pregen must still go to a brand new level one character; some people will invoke the first level retraining rules to get around this ("I'm not playing a pregen, I'm playing my own character that's exactly the same!"), but if you do, keep in mind that means you have to actually buy the same equipment the pregen has, so when "rebuilding", you don't get back any money from consumables the pregen had that you may have used.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Where does it say that in the Guide to Organized Play?

Guide to Organized Play, Page 6 wrote:

If you don’t have time to create a new character or simply wish to try out a new character class, you may choose to use one of several level-appropriate pregenerated characters available at

...

So basically credit from a pregen level 1 character could not be applied to any of my level 1 Society characters that have played in a scenario?

[Starglim]

Neongelion wrote:

So basically credit from a pregen level 1 character could not be applied to any of my level 1 Society characters that have played in a scenario?

Correct, for two reasons: it must be applied to a newly generated character and it may not be applied to an existing character of the same level or higher.

[Paz]

Neongelion wrote:

So basically credit from a pregen level 1 character could not be applied to any of my level 1 Society characters that have played in a scenario?

Yes it could. Or rather, since you can retrain 1st-level PCs between scenarios, you can just treat it as being rebuilt as identical to Kyra for that scenario.

[Starglim]

Paz wrote:

Neongelion wrote:

So basically credit from a pregen level 1 character could not be applied to any of my level 1 Society characters that have played in a scenario?

Yes it could. Or rather, since you can retrain 1st-level PCs between scenarios, you can just treat it as being rebuilt as identical to Kyra for that scenario.

Well, you could play a character identical to Kyra (presumably with more gold unspent) for the scenario in question. It would be your own character, not a pregen.

[SCPRedMage]

Tony Lindman wrote:

You may still be misreading ... you can play a pregen even if your own character is legal for the table. You simply cannot then give the chronicle to that character, you must give it to a character below the level of the scenario you played.

Incorrect; the correct version would be:

"You simply cannot then give the chronicle to that character, you must give it to a character below the level of the pregen you played."

The only thing that matters, when applying the pregen chronicle from a non-first-level pregen, is the level of your character versus the level of the pregen; the tier of the scenario is irrelevant. The character must be a lower level than the pregen that earned the chronicle, but does not need to be high enough to be in the tier of the scenario played, but can be. You then "hold" the chronicle until the character reaches the level of the pregen played.

For example, if you were to play a fourth level pregen, you would have the following options:
1. Reduce GP earned to 500gp, immediately apply the chronicle to any first level character (0-2 XP).
2. Assign the chronicle to any character who is level one, two, or three (0-8 XP), and apply it once that character reaches level four (9 XP).

These two options are always available, regardless of whether this pregen was played in a Tier 1-5 or a Tier 3-7.

[Neongelion]

Paz wrote:

Neongelion wrote:

So basically credit from a pregen level 1 character could not be applied to any of my level 1 Society characters that have played in a scenario?

Yes it could. Or rather, since you can retrain 1st-level PCs between scenarios, you can just treat it as being rebuilt as identical to Kyra for that scenario.

Well in my case I had used the pregen ninja and had wanted to apply the credit to a barbarian I played several weeks ago for the first time. How would that be identical?

Okay now I'm really confused. My barbarian is level 1 but has two chronicle sheets attached to him already; so he COULD get the credit from the pregen ninja even though they're the exact opposites of each other in terms of class and stats?

[SCPRedMage]

Neongelion wrote:

Well in my case I had used the pregen ninja and had wanted to apply the credit to a barbarian I played several weeks ago for the first time. How would that be identical?

Okay now I'm really confused. My barbarian is level 1 but has two chronicle sheets attached to him already; so he COULD get the credit from the pregen ninja even though they're the exact opposites of each other in terms of class and stats?

Technically for it to work, you would need to document selling your barbarian's equipment back for 100% price AND buying ALL of the ninja's equipment for the scenario you played the ninja, and then do the exact opposite afterwards.

Basically, retrain from barbarian to ninja for one scenario, then retrain from ninja to barbarian for the following scenario. It's a paperwork nightmare, and causes otherwise upstanding rule-abiding players to knowingly disregard the rules (by using a technically viable work-around that requires extra paperwork that they don't do), so the rule desperately needs changing. Any concern of people "gaming" the system by playing pregens all through level one is, in my opinion, far out-weighed by concerns of making things harder for newbies who either aren't yet comfortable making their own character or simply don't have time to do so (like back-to-back convention games).

[Neongelion]

SCPRedMage wrote:

Neongelion wrote:

Well in my case I had used the pregen ninja and had wanted to apply the credit to a barbarian I played several weeks ago for the first time. How would that be identical?

Okay now I'm really confused. My barbarian is level 1 but has two chronicle sheets attached to him already; so he COULD get the credit from the pregen ninja even though they're the exact opposites of each other in terms of class and stats?

Technically for it to work, you would need to document selling your barbarian's equipment back for 100% price AND buying ALL of the ninja's equipment for the scenario you played the ninja, and then do the exact opposite afterwards.

Basically, retrain from barbarian to ninja for one scenario, then retrain from ninja to barbarian for the following scenario. It's a paperwork nightmare, and causes otherwise upstanding rule-abiding players to knowingly disregard the rules (by using a technically viable work-around that requires extra paperwork that they don't do), so the rule desperately needs changing. Any concern of people "gaming" the system by playing pregens all through level one is, in my opinion, far out-weighed by concerns of making things harder for newbies who either aren't yet comfortable making their own character or simply don't have time to do so (like back-to-back convention games).

Ho boy. Y'know what, doesn't sound like it's worth the effort. It's only 500 gp, 2 PP and 1 XP, I think that can be better used for my newly created sorcerer.