| SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Quicken Cantrip
You can use low level magic with ease.
Prerequisite: Quicken Spell, Spellcraft 3 ranks.
Benefit: Select one 0-level spell you can cast. You can cast the selected spell as a swift action. This does not increase the level of the spell slot used to cast the cantrip or orison.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Each time you do, you must select a different 0-level spell. Even though the name of the feat is Quicken Cantrip, divine casters may select this feat and apply it to orisons.
So, does this seem too powerful? Spells I imagine might be problematic are acid splash, daze, disrupt undead, guidance, jolt, ray of frost, touch of fatigue. Possibly flare, message, open/close, resistance, spark, virtue.
| Scythia |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It seems ok to me, although I would probably do something like this:
Cantrip Mastery
Req: Able to cast cantrips, able to cast 3rd level spells
Due to your long experience casting cantrips, you are now able to cast them without expending much effort. You may cast a 0 level spell as a swift action 3 + your primary casting mod times per day.
I don't think any caster who has quicken spell will be in a hurry to use their swift action on a cantrip, so making that a requirement seems a bit much. I set it at able to cast third level spells because by that point a cantrip is unlikely to make a big difference. 1d3 damage, +1 to a save, a quick whispered comment, or a momentary debuff with a low DC aren't going to turn any fates around by fifth or sixth level.
| SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
My concern is an arcane trickster getting off a swift ray of frost while invisible and sneak attacking for an additional 2d6+. Is that overpowered? Or just about right for the cost of 2 feats?
I also kind of want it to be used at will. I think it would be fun being a cleric that spams swift guidances every round.
| Scythia |
That swift Ray of Frost would cancel their invis (unless you meant Improved), and possibly spoil plans for other sneak attacks that round. Not op at all. The level I set it at, lv 3 spells has Fireball, which starts at 5d6 to everybody in 30', I don't think 1d3 + 2d6 to a single target is so awful.
I still don't think requiring Swift Spell is a good idea. Since that adds +4 to the level, most casters probably aren't going to pick it up until seventh level or later, and aside from being a character quirk, like the spammy cleric you mentioned, most casters at that point would have no interest in swift action cantrips, both for power reasons and because swift actions can be better used at that point.
Aside from that, I think it's okay as you have it. I'd personally have difficulty seeing a case where I'd take it, but I don't think it's out of line power wise.
| Excaliburproxy |
My concern is an arcane trickster getting off a swift ray of frost while invisible and sneak attacking for an additional 2d6+. Is that overpowered? Or just about right for the cost of 2 feats?
I also kind of want it to be used at will. I think it would be fun being a cleric that spams swift guidances every round.
That is why I think Scythia's limited use version might be less dangerous. 1d4+4d6 damage a few times a day (predicated on an attack) is just not that big of a deal at higher levels.
More generally: it assures that the swift action cantrip can't be used as a basis for some strange unintended fighting style.
| Ciaran Barnes |
What if there was some language included in Scythia's version that basically inhibits unintended uses, such as sneak attacking twice in a surprise round. You could say that it using the ability prohibits casting another cantrip in the same round, or in a more extreme form from casting another spell at all in the same round. Or, if "abusing" the feat a half dozen times or more per day is a concern, then limit it to 3 times per day (no extra uses for casting mod). Honestly though, the original form is going to be just fine 90% of the time.
| Drejk |
I thought a few years ago about something like Cantrip Adept feat chain that would allow applying metamagic feats to cantrips without increasing spell level...
Maybe something like that:
Cantrip Adept
Benefits: You can apply up to two levels of metamagic feats (other than Heighten Spell) to your 0th level spells without using higher level spell slot.
Cantrip Master
Benefits: You can apply up to four levels of metamagic feats (other than Heighten Spell) to your 0th level spells without using higher level spell slot.
Or maybe it should be 3/6 free levels of metamagic feats? That would allow using silent-still-quickened cantrips with Cantrip Master... Assuming the character would know the right metamagic feats.
| johnnythexxxiv |
There was a thread a little while back that got acid splash and ray of frost to do over 40 damage each. Free quickening would lead to even more damage for acid splash in that specific case, so I can see where there could be concerns with power. Personally though, I'd be fine with it since most people wouldn't go through the trouble of min/maxing cantrip damage.