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Yup, I shortened that part a bit; two vestigial arms from alchemist plus claws on your normal arms from race or class. Mix in horribly ineffective kicks for higher total number of attacks. Add in more claws from another feat/class and place them on the vestigial arms. Now use four claws for your full attack with an awesome BAB. Add bite if desired as well. The key is vestigial arms can't grant additional numbers of attacks per round but can replace very low value attacks for higher value ones. When I last looked at the build it was with a half orc MoMS 2/ natural style ranger 2/alchemist 3 for five primary attacks at level seven, four of them being 1D6+1.5 strength.
Vestigial Arm (Ex): The alchemist gains a new arm (left or right) on his torso. The arm is fully under his control and cannot be concealed except with magic or bulky clothing. The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round, though the arm can wield a weapon and make attacks as part of the alchemist's attack routine (using two-weapon fighting). The arm can manipulate or hold items as well as the alchemist's original arms (for example, allowing the alchemist to use one hand to wield a weapon, another hand to hold a potion, and the third hand to throw a bomb). The arm has its own “hand” and “ring” magic item slots (though the alchemist can still only wear two rings and two hand magic items at a time). An alchemist may take this discovery up to two times.
What part of "The arm does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round" is so hard to shallow?
You can't replace the ineffectual kicks for claw attacks with the vestigial arms. You are trying to replace 2 manufactured/IUS attacks for 2 natural weapon attacks but they aren't interchangeable.
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That's just it, it doesn't add any number of attacks per round higher than you would have without vestigial arms the build just lets vestigial arms offer more effective uses...
You mean this post. Read it carefully.
The tengu in the example is trading 2 IUS attacks for 2 manufactured weapon attacks,. He keep them in the same category.You are trading 2 IUS for 2 claw attacks, you change the chategory.
SKR example, allowed tengu: 2 manufactured attacks, 3 natural weapon attacks.
Torbyne example, not legal tengu: 5 natural weapon attacks.
Edit: Reading the following posts by SKR it seem you are right.
Head scratch.
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The reason this keeps coming up is that the rules in the books do not match the FAQ.
The book is vague and easily interpreted in several different ways.
Also by logic there should be no reason to forbid Two Hander + Armor spikes or Two Hander + unarmed strike as the penalty to TWF means you are doing less DPR and paying a feat + enchanting more than one weapon for what comes down to be flavor.
Now if you have some ability that triggers on each attack such as poison or the critical feat tree the extra attacks at the cost of DPR can be worthwhile, however poison is prohibitively expensive and the crit trees come online late in life and are not substantially enhanced by this ability, definitely not over say TWF with kukris.
By the FAQ I believe combining any other weapon except natural weapons via TWF with a two hander is disallowed though. This is unfortunately the ruling that was made as far as I can see.
This is why i think vestigial arms are dumb, they're worded at the high level when they should be worded according to the base rules of combat.
they talk about wielding and number of attacks, but don't reference the base rules of the combat system.
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I hope that Pathfinder Unchained will resolve some of these issues, the book will contain optional rules, but at least it will give a better idea of what is the RAI of some rule.
@Torbyne read my edit.
I still think that trading IUS for natural attacks is not RAW but apparently SKR feel differently and he was the rule guy when he wrote that.
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The Sea-knife and Barbazu Beard explicitly state they can used as an off-hand attack whilst using a two-handed weapon.
They are not noted as an exception to the rules, but is possible because they don't require a hand.
The FAQ really appears to suggest that Armor Spikes require a hand, and that you cannot two-weapon fight with a two handed weapon, along with any other weapon that requires a hand to use.
This is part about explicitly denying any kind attack, along with a two-handed weapon attack, is just not present in the FAQ.
In that area of vagueness, one must look to the written rules, to figure out how to rule.
Could you two-weapon fight with a two-hander by having your "off-hand" be an unarmed strike?You can't TWF with a 2 hander and an offhand because that is three hands.
I didn't realize my character's foot was also a hand! I thought I made an Elf, not an ape. ;)
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why bother seeking holes in the rules?
dude you are the GM, you can rule it the way you want.
why you come to ask to us? you can go directly to "ask james jacobs"
two off hands still are off hands, so, you get the 1/2 str bonus. and still consumes a full round action use propperly a doble weapon.if the books don´t says nothing about something it means a "no" in the rules.
if youre looking for bugs in the game, to imrpove your munchkinism, better go and install X PC game in yours, and cheat it.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules".
-Gary Gygax
You have no idea what you are talking about.
You troll the thread with you accusations of "munchkinism", and cheating.
What are you even saying?
Do you even have a stance?
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Could you two-weapon fight with a two-hander by having your "off-hand" be an unarmed strike?You can't TWF with a 2 hander and an offhand because that is three hands.
What of it? If the off-hand is not a real hand, then there is no reason that characters with two real hands would be limited to two metaphysical hands worth of effort.
See! It's written right there on page 156 of the unwritten rules section!