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There is a trait in the Adventurer's Armory called Rough and Ready where you gain proficiency with improvised weapons related to your profession.
If I was playing a pirate character, which I will be in an upcoming S&S game, can I use this to gain proficiency with certain pirate weapons so long as I had ranks in Profession (sailor)?
Would I, for example, be able to pick up grappling hooks, gaffs, and boarding gaffs and be able to use them as if I had taken the appropriate exotic weapon feats? Would they have their grappling or trip special abilities when using this trait? I know it wouldn't work with weapons like a cutlass that were designed to be weapons in the first place, but specifically the three I mentioned above are not actually weapons; they are tools people just happened to have commonly used as weapons.
I am trying to find a way to gain proficiency in the types of weapons that would be extremely common for pirate characters to use without having to waste feats on it.
#1 you seem to be missing the 'improvised' in the trait. Grappling hook and boarding gaff are actual weapons so no go there.
#2 there is quite a controversy over things like Rough and Ready and proficiency. Make sure your DM agrees that it actually does grant proficiency before you build a character around it.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Board ing%20gaff
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/EquipmentWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Grapp ling%20hook
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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While these do have stats, these are also called out as unintentional weapons. I understand that doesn't mean improvised, but it does feel that there is a suggestion that they would be. Both weapons are not created as weapons, they are things you find on a ship and can use as a weapon if you want to.
So yeah I can see your point. I was just hoping there was something I was missing.
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Rough and Ready states that you don't take the improvised weapon penalty, and indeed get a trait bonus, on attack rolls, but it doesn't say you gain proficiency - which (apart from removing non-proficiency penalties) does other things too (such as qualify you to choose a weapon for the Weapon Focus Feat). Rough and Ready is sort-of like a Profession-specific version of the Catch Off-Guard Feat (which also doesn't grant 'proficiency' but just removes penalties).
As for what features that lets you use for things like grappling hooks... well, I'm afraid that's soldily into GM-call territory (as are, basically, all statistics for improvised weapons).
Yeah, before the Pirates of the Inner Sea you'd have been right. However they've gone from 'unintentional weapons' to exotic ones. Heck, there are things on the weapon list that aren't weapons first like gauntlet and wet rope (rope gauntlet).
That's not to say you couldn't use Rough and Ready, just that most of the pirate items are already weapons. Nothing is stopping you from beating someone with a large two-handed oar, whipping a (non-spiked)chain or tossing belaying pins as ranged weapons. Still plenty of options. Even the normal gaff could be used (I'd use hook hand stats without needing to chop off hand).
Rough and Ready states that you don't take the improvised weapon penalty, and indeed get a trait bonus, on attack rolls, but it doesn't say you gain proficiency - which (apart from removing non-proficiency penalties) does other things too (such as qualify you to choose a weapon for the Weapon Focus Feat). Rough and Ready is sort-of like a Profession-specific version of the Catch Off-Guard Feat (which also doesn't grant 'proficiency' but just removes penalties).
If you look at the weapon proficiency feats you'll see that they too do not grant proficiency. All they do is remove the removing non-proficiency penalties. Hence me saying there is a debate over it.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Combat)
Benefit: You make attack rolls with the weapon normally.
Normal: A character who uses a weapon with which he is not proficient takes a –4 penalty on attack rolls.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Okay, so I seem to be understanding this a great deal better but I still have questions.
So if I have Rough and Ready I can pick up a grappling hook and fight with it. This means that I don't take a -4 penalty for wielding it (and actually gain a +1 to attack,) but because the description of the grappling hook says that I specifically need the exotic weapon proficiency feat to use the grapple special ability I do not get to use that ability. In short, no penalty to attack with it but I can't use the grapple ability. Do I have that right? (Edit: reread the comments above. This seems to be reliant on a GM's call on if the grappling hook actually qualifies as an improvised weapon still, or if the -4 comes from the lack of proficiency feats instead.)
However, the boarding gaff says nothing about the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. Does that mean that anyone can use the special abilities of a boarding gaff, proficient or not? If yes, would that mean that my character, with the R&R trait, can pick one up and use it with no penalty along with all of its weapon abilities (reach, double, trip?) (Edit: Once again, reliant on GM call.)
Because the grappling hook and boarding gaff have weapon stats do they no longer qualify to benefit from the R&R trait? In other words, would the -4 penalty for wielding them be removed? I am a little torn with this one because the question is why there is a -4 penalty. Is it because they are exotic weapons or because they can be classified as improvised weapons? (Edit: Let's just assume you are the GM. How would you call it?)
If they qualify to benefit, could the boarding axe or the gaff also benefit? This might be a GM call, as it might be argued that while they are stated weapons both are also tools of the sailor's trade and thus qualify for the trait.
There are lots of great ideas for improvised weapons but one came to mind that I am unsure of. A chain has really only one other weapon I could find that best fits it, the spiked chain. If I use the spiked chain stats for an improvised chain weapon, would there be any penalty for not being proficient with the spiked chain? Do I also get to use spiked chain's special abilities?
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Nothing is stopping you from beating someone with a large two-handed oar, whipping a (non-spiked)chain or tossing belaying pins as ranged weapons. Still plenty of options. Even the normal gaff could be used (I'd use hook hand stats without needing to chop off hand).
I love these ideas. The regular gaff does have stats. It is a martial weapon that has the same stats as a flail.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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If he is using the splatbook for character options, I would expect that there are character options in that book that make the normal pirate-type weapons non-exotic, or for characters who have ranks in profession sailor and are pirates I would allow them to be treated as martial weapons. Either way it is thematic and fitting, and to penalize a player for something printed in a book they do not have the option of using would be a bad decision to start with.
The weapons come from Pirates of the Inner Sea. There is nothing I can find in that book that makes those weapons non-exotic for sailors or pirates (which is a little silly to me.)
I do plan on talking to him when I see him next. I just know that he is going to ask, "What do the Paizo boards say?"
Because the grappling hook and boarding gaff have weapon stats do they no longer qualify to benefit from the R&R trait?
Correct. R&R ONLY works with improvised weapons and those are weapons now.
In other words, would the -4 penalty for wielding them be removed?
Nope. You need something that works with weapons.
I am a little torn with this one because the question is why there is a -4 penalty. Is it because they are exotic weapons or because they can be classified as improvised weapons? (Edit: Let's just assume you are the GM. How would you call it?)
The error is that they can't be classified as improvised weapons anymore because there are published weapon stats for them. They are the same as a longsword or a longbow, weapons NOT improvised weapons.
If they qualify to benefit, could the boarding axe or the gaff also benefit? This might be a GM call, as it might be argued that while they are stated weapons both are also tools of the sailor's trade and thus qualify for the trait.
Read the trait. It only says "you do not take the improvised weapon penalty". To use anything with weapons stats it's have to say "non proficiency pentalty". Now what you MIGHT be able to do is gain the +1 to hit with one of these weapons is you can convince the DM that they are 'tools of the trade'.
There are lots of great ideas for improvised weapons but one came to mind that I am unsure of. A chain has really only one other weapon I could find that best fits it, the spiked chain. If I use the spiked chain stats for...
Yep, that'd be the closest. 2d4, B, x2. (improvised weapons don't gain ANY traits like trip or disarm)
On gaff: These aren't listed weapons and only show up in the marsh giant monster entry. All we know is that the giants can use it as a weapon. For all we know they get their own version of rough and ready for them and they are improvised.
Also from the description, it sounds like the weapon they use is a boarding gaff and not a normal gaff. Theirs is a 2-handed hooked club and a normal gaff is just a hook with a crossbar to grip so that the hook comes out from between your fingers or with a much smaller handle as short as a dagger. Pretty much a hook hand without having to cut off a hand.