Genie-Kin as a Heritage rather than a racial grouping.

[Courrain]

What if the Genie-kin was more like one of the aasimar or tiefling heritages instead of a mere grouping of races? As most Pathfinder fans know by now, aasimars and tieflings can come in several different 'flavors' besides the standard run-of-the-mill member of their respective races. A player playing an aasimar can play as a standard aasimar or he could play an aasimar who is a descendant of an agathion, an angel, an archon, an azata, a garuda or a peri. The same can be said of the tieflings, a player can play as a standard tiefling or he can play a tiefling who is the descendant from one of the 10 different kinds of fiends that plague Golarion.
Genie-kin on the other hand are pretty run-of-the-mill. Unless a player is using an alternate racial trait to show that his genie-kin is the descendent of a Mephit or some other elemental race, everyone knows or assumes that he is the descendant of a particular genie.

So why did the genie-kin get the short end of the stick? Why isn't the genie-kin merely a heritage like an agathion-blooded aasimar or a div-blooded tiefling?

I think it would be nice if the genie-kin was merely a heritage, one of several for the elemental planetouched. Thoughts, everyone?

Aside from genie-kin, the next most obvious heritage for the elemental planetouched are those descended from the Mephits. Mephit-Kin? Mephlings?

If anyone knows of any other elemental planetouched heritage, please leave a link for everybody to purview.

[lemeres]

Eh....do we really need to rip up four existing races just to make another heritage chart? I mean, as a general standardized format, it would have been alright before they released the races....but confusing people by invalidating preexisting material seems like a pain.

I mean, it took me forever to read up and figure out that tieflings do not appear to need the fiendish heritage feat anymore (and my understanding of all this is still born from conjecture about where the feat was, and later wasn't, printed and a close examination of the PFS legal sources). The suggested changes would take time to get incorporated in everyone's understanding.

Plus, while a lot of them have at least a few interchangeable feature (like that alternate trait that gives them fast healing for a few points a day when exposed to their element), there is still enough there that it would be hard to include all the material without making it overly complicated ('this trait can only be taken by elemental-touched with the blah heritage, and replaces blah blah' gets tiring to keep track of after a few pages). Not to mention that there are archetypes and some feats which are specific to only one of the 4 races, and that is not something you see with tiefling and aasimar as far as I am aware. I mean, what would you do with the water singer bard that is using that special weapon that helps its hydraulic push?

Overall, while this is a nice idea, it is far to late to implement because there is too much surrounding material to cut out the core without leaving a bloody mess.

[Courrain]

I am not suggesting that the ifrits, oreads, slyphs and undines be torn up just to make another heritage chart. What I would like to see are versions of these four that are the descendants of something other than a genie. How would an ifrit descended from a fire mephit differ (with regards to attributes and the ifrit's spell-like ability) from an ifrit who is the descendant of an Efreet.
These differences are clear when you look at an agathion-blooded aasimar and an angel-blooded aasimar. But they aren't so clear when it is just a single trait being replaced by an alternate racial trait. Sure, an ifrit with the fast healing of a fire mephit is different from an ifrit that doesn't have this trait. But what else is different about them?

The heritages presented in Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends are a great way to play a specific kind of aasimar or tiefling. I doubt that Paizo made a bloody mess when they came up with all of these different celestial or fiendish heritages. They were offering the players more options to play with. I just wish the same was done for these four races.

I do agree with you that it is officially too late to implement. Unofficially though, this idea can be implemented by a third party source or by another fan of Pathfinder.

[lemeres]

Courrain wrote:

I am not suggesting that the ifrits, oreads, slyphs and undines be torn up just to make another heritage chart. What I would like to see are versions of these four that are the descendants of something other than a genie. How would an ifrit descended from a fire mephit differ (with regards to attributes and the ifrit's spell-like ability) from an ifrit who is the descendant of an Efreet.

These differences are clear when you look at an agathion-blooded aasimar and an angel-blooded aasimar. But they aren't so clear when it is just a single trait being replaced by an alternate racial trait. Sure, an ifrit with the fast healing of a fire mephit is different from an ifrit that doesn't have this trait. But what else is different about them?

The heritages presented in Blood of Angels and Blood of Fiends are a great way to play a specific kind of aasimar or tiefling. I doubt that Paizo made a bloody mess when they came up with all of these different celestial or fiendish heritages. They were offering the players more options to play with. I just wish the same was done for these four races.

I do agree with you that it is officially too late to implement. Unofficially though, this idea can be implemented by a third party source or by another fan of Pathfinder.

Whoops, misread there. Sorry, several young family members were whacking me at the time (excuses solve everything! And they certainly don't make me feel lame!.....Sorry.....)

The bloody mess thing was me mistaking that you wanted just 'elemental kin' rather than 'fire related people' 'water related people', etc. Well, it is going to be at least a bit messy (late implementation always does that).

Ok, so I have to give a more thorough examination of this- now then, are there really any kind of iconic elemental creatures besides genies and elementals? Mephits are nice, but they are hardly as iconic.

And the list for each race has to be a bit more expanded than that, since you would likely need at least 4 heritages for each to make this w worthwhile choice. Can you find something for each that people are able to recognize and accept without much effort?

And can this 4th pick for each of the 4 races really be seen as in the same league? Unfortunately, unlike the 9 alignments, which all get rather impressive representatives (which is made up of a subtype that mostly just represents that alignment, meaning a very nice selection of CR), elements are a bit abandoned and only get a couple universal types (which has the type covering all 4 elements, limiting how many creatures it has), and then they are filled with one off monsters. So if you are not making some new universal set out of nowhere....you are stuck picking things out of the one offs. Imagine if it was what is basically a fire dragon on the fire side versus 'Skippy the Wonder Mole' on the earth side. Even if they were at all similar in power...it just doesn't mesh well.

But I am not an expert on the bestiary. Maybe there are some nice picks to help round off the list.

[Chengar Qordath]

Yeah, the best way I could think of to do expanded elemental heritages is to expand the scope of the elements themselves. Something like including element-kin based on the elementals added in Bestiary 2 (Ice, Lighning, Mud, and Magma) could work, and maybe adding things like wood elementals and metal elemental-kin as well.

[Courrain]

--Lemeres

One of the major hurdles to developing heritages for the elemental kin for Pathfinder is that there are not many groups of elemental beings for them to be descended from. So far it just looks like you can get them from Genies, Mephits and those who had the fortune/misfortune to be exposed to a source of elemental energy while pregnant. The Ifrits are a little better off in that you can have them being the descendants of Azers and Salamanders.

A thought did occur to me the other day, however, on another possible heritage for the elemental kin. Those celestials or fiends who have something elemental about them. For instance, there are the Peri from the Bestiary 3. Normally you would get a Peri-Blooded or Emberkin Aasimar as a result. But what if there was a chance for a Peri-Blooded Ifrit?

I know, this thought would probably muddy things further. It's just a possibility. But who knows?

--Chengar Qordath
In the past Paizo has come out with Para-Genasi in its' former Dragon Magazine publications. And there are unofficial websites that have examples of quasi-Genasi. So they could be converted over into Pathfinder. For instance, a Lightning Quasi-Genasi could be the result of a mortal mating with a Djinn who lived in one of the planet-sized storms on the Elemental Plane of Air. A Magma Para-Genasi could be the result of a mortal mating with a shaitan or an efreet that spent too much time living near the border of the Elemental Plane of Earth and the Elemental Plane of Fire.

There's also the possibility of an elemental kin coming from a genie of mixed blood. The Pathfinder SRD website has one example of a mixed blood genie that is the offspring of Djinn and Efreets.

Maybe Paizo will do something about this in a future product. Again, who knows?