I was thinking of putting together a Cartomancer Witch, however I think the art of the Paizo Harrow Deck is so cartoonish and ugly that I can't justify buying it. Now while the other archtypes in the harrow book like the inquisitor and the magus both have automatic level granted abilities that involve pulling cards from the deck and thus require actually having a deck, the witch does not.
If I never took any hexes or spells that involve pulling a card from a deck, would I actually need a deck? Or would simply having the harrow book suffice for legal PFS play of a cartomancer?
|
Well, let's see, the additional resources state:
The Harrow deck, and any use of it with archetypes, bloodlines, orders, equipment, feats, hexes, masterpieces, mysteries, spells, or traits, may be used if it is an actual Harrow deck. Any alternative means to simulate the Harrow deck usage, such as a normal deck of cards or dice, is not legal for play.
But as you have said, the Cartomancer Witch does not care which card they pull in any way shape or form.
Personally, I would let a Cartomancer play without a physical Harrow deck, so long as they don't use abilities that require them to draw a card from the harrow deck and know what they drew
|
Whether they care what card is pulled or not, is not really relevant to what the AR says. It says "any use of it".
So, as long as they ability doesn't require drawing a card at all, then sure you can use it. If the ability required drawing any card, then you would need an actual deck.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Flite...if that is the intent, then the AR is a bit off on wording IMO, but it would count as messageboard clarification from staff...so ignore what I say above.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
Let's discuss some ground rules for Harrow use in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. These are intended to keep Harrow use from bogging down gameplay while also providing GMs some assurance that everyone's playing fair and showing off the beautiful new version of the Deluxe Harrow Deck.1. Using a Harrow-based character option that involves drawing one or more cards at random requires a physical Harrow deck. Substituting another deck of cards or using the dice-rolling option (such as the one presented in the harrower prestige class) is not an option. If you aren't using a character option that does not change based on which card you draw (such as just throwing cards with the Deadly Dealer feat), you do not need to have a physical copy of the Harrow deck.
here is the post for reference
Yeah the AR could use some clarification.
(also, there is an unintended double negative in the quote above. Read literally, it says you need a physical deck to use deadly dealer, but not to perform a harrowing... :) )
|
Similar question. Does a Card Caster Magus have to use a Harrow deck, or for that manner a deck at all for his Spell stike ability. The way I read it, any ranged weapon can be enhanced by his arcana. So if I had a Card Caster Magus with a level of Gunslinger, he could add spellstike to his bullets, right? Believe I am reading that correctly.
|
|
Similar question. Does a Card Caster Magus have to use a Harrow deck, or for that manner a deck at all for his Spell stike ability. The way I read it, any ranged weapon can be enhanced by his arcana. So if I had a Card Caster Magus with a level of Gunslinger, he could add spellstike to his bullets, right? Believe I am reading that correctly.
If you want to use spell strike with a gun you need to be a Myrmidarch magus, not a card caster. Card Caster Magus can use any thrown weapon with their spell strike ability, not just cards, but the bullets of a gun are not thrown.
|
|
(snip...) If you want to use spell strike with a gun you need to be a Myrmidarch magus, not a card caster. Card Caster Magus can use any thrown weapon with their spell strike ability, not just cards, but the bullets of a gun are not thrown.
And that combo (Myrmidarch magus/Gunslinger) lets you put shocking grasp on your bullets. *hee hee* It's beautiful when you crit (especially if you're a Musket Master...).
|
|
The line reads a card caster can use his arcane pool to augment range weapons only. Doesn't that mean he can effect his firearms?
The augment ability on the Archives' of Nethys does indeed say ranged weapon, so you could use that ability on a firearm as written.
The spellstrike (and it looks like all of the other abilities of the archetype) however, state they only work with thrown weapons, as Ferious Thune pointed out above. Therefore, no you can not spellstrike with a firearm with this archetype.
I'm assuming the language is a bit loose on the augment ability, and it should be thrown weapon too, as it fits better that way with the flavor of the class...but as written it works on any ranged weapon right now.
|
|
(snip...) If you want to use spell strike with a gun you need to be a Myrmidarch magus, not a card caster. Card Caster Magus can use any thrown weapon with their spell strike ability, not just cards, but the bullets of a gun are not thrown.And that combo (Myrmidarch magus/Gunslinger) lets you put shocking grasp on your bullets. *hee hee* It's beautiful when you crit (especially if you're a Musket Master...).
You only get x2 crit though, not the x4 of guns.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
And apparently my entire question has been rendered moot by the fact that my husband bought the Harrow deck. ><
|
This Harrow deck system sounds awesome. Where can I get the book/resource that allows me to use it? (I'm sure I can locate the Harrow Deck itself on the website somewhere)
Never mind, I found them both. :D
Looks fun. Hopefully my GM will let me break the rules a little, so I can play with normal cards. That deck looks great, but expensive...|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This Harrow deck system sounds awesome. Where can I get the book/resource that allows me to use it? (I'm sure I can locate the Harrow Deck itself on the website somewhere)Never mind, I found them both. :D
Looks fun. Hopefully my GM will let me break the rules a little, so I can play with normal cards. That deck looks great, but expensive...
PFS is played on the honor system.
YOU know a regular deck of cards isn't allowed for harrow related items. That in of itself should be enough. You shouldn't need someone else to reiterate the point to you at a game.
|
|
And apparently my entire question has been rendered moot by the fact that my husband bought the Harrow deck. ><
Indeed. And then said husband spent the latest session chuckling as the wife with no intention of using the cards, spent the entire game telling fortunes and pulling cards to "see what the future holds". So yeah, guess there was no need for them...
;)
They weren't needed. However, since you had alreadybought them I couldn't very well let that money go to waste, so I had to use them to get our monies worth! But that leads to new and improved harrow questions:
Can a catomancers harrow deck be enchanted with things like a +1 or ghost touch or flaming?
Would my party members get a sense motive check whenever I tell them anything 'the cards say...'
Would it be legal to charge a small fee (5, 10 gold) of my party members to read their fortunes?
|
|
Can a catomancers harrow deck be enchanted with things like a +1 or ghost touch or flaming?
According to the feat Deadly Dealer, the deck can be enchanted, but I am not entirely sure how that part works.
Would my party members get a sense motive check whenever I tell them anything 'the cards say...'
Only if you make a bluff :)
Would it be legal to charge a small fee (5, 10 gold) of my party members to read their fortunes?
Yes and no, you can suggest that they pay a fee, but it cannot go to you. It could however be a donation to say the Church of Desna or Irez however.
Note to self: Put ranks in Bluff.
|
|
This Harrow deck system sounds awesome. Where can I get the book/resource that allows me to use it? (I'm sure I can locate the Harrow Deck itself on the website somewhere)Never mind, I found them both. :D
Looks fun. Hopefully my GM will let me break the rules a little, so I can play with normal cards. That deck looks great, but expensive...PFS is played on the honor system.
YOU know a regular deck of cards isn't allowed for harrow related items. That in of itself should be enough. You shouldn't need someone else to reiterate the point to you at a game.
Oh, I'm working on getting them. I LOVE them. But I'm not really allowed to have a paycheck yet, so it could take a while to order them. After all, I have to be wise with my money, with the Advanced Class Guide coming out next monthe. ;)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
enhancing a deck works as if enhancing 54 pieces of ammunition. So find the price for a normal magic weapon enhancement, divide by 50, multiply by 54.It actually says "as though it were a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition" not "as though it were 54 pieces of ammunition."
And here-in lies the confusion.
There is exactly 1 pre-enchanted Harrow deck in the Harrow Handbook, which is a +1 limning harrow deck with the ability to change the damage to slashing and add double damage from deadly dealer for 13,000, but this doesn't help because of the special abilities of the deck.
Also, inquiring minds want to know, can a character with Deadly Dealer make a harrow deck into a bonded weapon? Say a cartomancer witch takes Eldritch Heritage: Arcane for example.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
It's rather confusing. Deadly Dealer makes thrown cards operate like darts, so are they enchanted like one would enchant darts? But it says enchanted as a ranged weapon, so would it be enchanted like a bow? Or can the Cartomancers deck be enchanted at all, as nowhere in the Cartomancer description does it say that the deck being used as a familiar can be enchated. Yet obviously enchanted decks exist...