Need Magus rule clarification please


Rules Questions


and no, this is not about Spell Combat & Spellstrike :P

So right now I am in a pathfinder game and I am making a Magus as a backup character for when this one meets his end. While reading the spell list for them and there class skills, a couple of questions came to mind that I never thought about before.

This is mostly related to the Arcane Pool use of temporarily empowering your weapon with various bonuses gained at lv 5

In our game it is very low magic, so much so that even a +1 item would be a grand find. Masterwork however is fairly easy to come by, so our party has a nice set of shiny well made gear. As per my understanding of the rules, in order to have any special effect added to a weapon, you need a +1 bonus first.
From that I would by default need to spend one of my +1 bonuses I could give on a base +1 enchant, but this raised a few questions.

1: Can I cheese around this by casting magic/greater magic weapon on my weapon before using the ability?

2: Some enchants would push the bonus over +5 and thus, cant be done without entering an epic level game, so how would I be able to add vorpal to my weapon if I must give it a +1 first?

3: I was told by one player that the answer to #2 is that the bonus is replaced. If that is true then is my understanding that if I wanted a +2 named effect on my weapon when I can only have 2 levels of enchantment, it would consume the +1 to gain the effect?

4:Lets say I do have an enchanted weapon with effects on it. With the use of arcane pool, would I be able to temporarily replace some of the bonuses, or would it only stack on top of the weapons already existing bonuses, not to surpass +5?

5: Lets say I have a +3 weapon and my arcane pool allows me a +2 bonus. Would I be able to effectively make it a +5 weapon by adding effects, or would the skill not work at all since its already higher then +2?

Thanks for the time of anyone who has an answer for me ahead of time. :)
~D~


thecrimsondawn wrote:


1: Can I cheese around this by casting magic/greater magic weapon on my weapon before using the ability?

2: Some enchants would push the bonus over +5 and thus, cant be done without entering an epic level game, so how would I be able to add vorpal to my weapon if I must give it a +1 first?

3: I was told by one player that the answer to #2 is that the bonus is replaced. If that is true then is my understanding that if I wanted a +2 named effect on my weapon when I can only have 2 levels of enchantment, it would consume the +1 to gain the effect?

4:Lets say I do have an enchanted weapon with effects on it. With the use of arcane pool, would I be able to temporarily replace some of the bonuses, or would it only stack on top of the weapons already existing bonuses, not to surpass +5?

5: Lets say I have a +3 weapon and my arcane pool allows me a +2 bonus. Would I be able to effectively make it a +5 weapon by adding effects, or would the skill not work at all since its already higher then +2?

1) Yes.

2) You misunderstand the limits. You can have up to a +5 in enhancement bonus, but the remainder's worth of special abilities, to a max of +10 on a single weapon. So yes, you can have a +4 Keen Vorpal Elven Curveblade.

3) No. The magus ability does not replace anything that is currently on the weapon. If you already had a +1 sword, and you could add up to +2 of magus-abilities, you could have a +1 flaming burst (or +3 or whatever).

4-5) You are limited to gaining no more than a +5 bonus from your levels of magus. The weapon is limited to +10 (up to +5 enhancement and the rest in specials). The magus ability doesn't replace anything already present on the weapon, but obviously you can't do things like put flaming on a weapon that already has it.

Where you have to be careful is if you somehow got your hands on a weapon with more than +5 worth of abilities already on it and you were a higher-level magus. Say you could put +4 on to your weapon from the magus and you already had a weapon of +7 - say a +3 flaming burst shocking burst. Since this weapon already has an effective +7, you can't use all +4 from magus. Also, since the weapon is +3 enhancement and +4 of special abilities, you could only put up to +2 into additional enhancement leaving a +1 special ability, or you could put all +3 into special abilities not named flaming, shocking, flaming burst, or shocking burst.


Thanks for the reply Vanykrye :)

This clears things up quite a bit for me.

I have always been a huge fan of the spell & blade type classes in games and I have no idea how I overlooked Magus when I made the warlock I am playing (home brew carry over)

I think I have done more reading and asked more questions on this class then any other I have ever played.

once again, thanks for your time :)

~D~


1: Yes, this would work just fine, though once Magic weapon's duration comes to and end the enhancements by the arcane pool could become illegal and would thus probably also lose effect.
2: The +5 limit is for the enhancement bonus itself. The enhancement bonus, combined with the special abilities, cannot exceed +10. So +1 Vorpal is fine as that's only +6.
3: If the weapon is for example already +5 and Keen, then that is effectively +6 and you could not add Vorpal to it at that point, as that would push it to effectively +11. You cannot lower the +5 to +4 in that case.
4: It would only stack, the enhancement bonus cannot exceed +5, the effective bonus when also taking into account he special abilities cannot exceed +10.
5: That would create a +5 weapon. The Arcane Pool ability specifically says that the enhancement bonus added by the Arcane Pool stacks with any existing enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5.

If you are playing in a very low magic campaign, especially equipment wise, then I would advice to talk to your DM about the Arcane Pool as it could very well create a balance problem. Best to address such issues early. There are a couple of archetypes which replace the ability to enhance weapons (Spell Dancer and Greensting Slayer). Though similar issues would likely occur with summoners and monks in such a campaign, as just like the magus they are must less dependent on weapons. So I wouldn't worry much if one of those is already in the party.

Liberty's Edge

You need a +1 magical enhancement to add further abilities. It can be a temporary bonus.

Now the answer to your questions:

1
Q: Can I cheese around this by casting magic/greater magic weapon on my weapon before using the ability?

A: Yes, you can add bonus to a weapon with a temporary enhancement.

2 Q: Some enchants would push the bonus over +5 and thus, cant be done without entering an epic level game, so how would I be able to add vorpal to my weapon if I must give it a +1 first?

A: the bonus (enhancements+special abilities) limit is +10, the enhancement limit is +5, they are 2 different things.

PRD wrote:
Some magic weapons have special abilities. Special abilities count as additional bonuses for determining the market value of the item, but do not modify attack or damage bonuses (except where specifically noted). A single weapon cannot have a modified bonus (enhancement bonus plus special ability bonus equivalents, including those from character abilities and spells) higher than +10. A weapon with a special ability must also have at least a +1 enhancement bonus. Weapons cannot possess the same special ability more than once.

The +5 limit is the maximum bonus to the hit and damage that you can get (barring some special ability like bane and furious), but you can have a weapon with a minimum of a +1 enhancement and 9 points of special abilities or up to a +5 enhancement and 5 points of special abilities (i.e. a +5 vorpal weapon).

Note that the magus bonuses and the grater magic weapon bonuses count for that +10 maximum. It is not clear what happen when you have more than 10 points of abilities, if you can't add new abilities and decide what abilities don't work, or if you can't add them at all.

3
Q: I was told by one player that the answer to #2 is that the bonus is replaced. If that is true then is my understanding that if I wanted a +2 named effect on my weapon when I can only have 2 levels of enchantment, it would consume the +1 to gain the effect?

A: If the weapon is only masterwork you should add a +1 enhancement and then you can add only 1 point of special abilities.

If the weapon has already been enhanced with magic weapon ior greater magic weapon and you can add a +2, youc an add 2 points of abilities and get a +1 weapon with 2 points of abilities.

4
Q:Lets say I do have an enchanted weapon with effects on it. With the use of arcane pool, would I be able to temporarily replace some of the bonuses, or would it only stack on top of the weapons already existing bonuses, not to surpass +5?

A: the limit is +10, it is not clear if you can replace some ability.
Note that grater magic weapon cast on a already magical weapon don't replace he weapon enhancement, it overlap it.

5
Q: Lets say I have a +3 weapon and my arcane pool allows me a +2 bonus. Would I be able to effectively make it a +5 weapon by adding effects, or would the skill not work at all since its already higher then +2?

A: You can effectively make it a +5 weapon or a +3 weapon with 2 points of special abilities.


@Corodix

Yes, I plan to run all this by my DM before playing it.

The setting is ancient Greece during the time of legends and gods. We are in an enlarged world with the Norse, Greek, and Egyptian pantheons of gods, including all there demigods, hero's, and places. Normal humans have no magic power what so ever, but the hero's (as well of course many of the mythological beings we encounter) very much do.
Since nobody can really craft magic items, getting our hands on anything would be quite the feat. To make up for this, our DM has effectively given us a template that we gain a level in every time our class levels up. As the story goes, somewhere far descended in our bloodline, we have blood of one of the gods or demi gods flowing through us, allowing us our special and rather unique ability's.

Because of that extra template I would say on average we would be getting an equivalent character level bonus every 3 levels or so, so I dont see my big attack atm (5d6 shocking grasp, 1d6 sword, 2d6 element damage or 1d6 element damage & keen) being that big of a deal.
My warlock at lv 5 is doing 4d6 eldrich blasts atm, and we have a monk, druid, ninja, and ranger in our party.
I think we are good :)

Liberty's Edge

If you are making a melee oriented magus Enduring blade from Ultimate Combat is a great arcana in your kind of setting,

PRD wrote:
Enduring Blade (Su): Whenever the magus enchants his weapon using his arcane pool, he may spend 1 additional point from his arcane pool to increase the duration to 1 minute per magus level. The magus must be at least 6th level before selecting this arcana.

The trait Bladed Magic from Ultimate Campaign can be even better as it don't cost arcane points.

PRD wrote:


Bladed Magic: You have an innate talent for using magical weaponry and those weapons capable of becoming magical. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Craft checks made to craft magic or masterwork weapons. In addition, when you use your arcane pool class ability to grant a weapon an enhancement bonus, that bonus lasts for 2 minutes instead of 1.

Another good feat for a melee magus is Arcane Strike.

As Corodix pointed out, a melee oriented magus can create some envy from the other melee characters, especially if your group often fight creatures with damage reduction. Casting greater magic weapon on their weapons can reduce that, but you need to be 7th level to cast that spell.

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