Why does using the Fly skill prevent being Flat-footed?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Fly wrote:

Attacked While Flying

You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature’s movement.

I'm trying to think about why it works this way. If an invisible rogue shoots you in the head with a gun from 30 ft. away and you didn't know they were there, by the rules you are immune to their sneak attack if you were flying. Even if they beat your AC by 10 or more points and you're simply hovering in place, you wouldn't be considered flat-footed by the way the Fly skill dictates things.

So, is there some kind of real-world rationale I'm missing? Because so far, it appears that even without any ranks in this skill, ANY flying creature has Spider Sense without even trying.


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I believe the rule is meant to be the default position to start from, and then apply flat-footed rules from there, not as a all-encompassing rule that has no exceptions.

Just like simply standing there doesn't default you to being flat footed.


If you contrast fly with the Climb skill you will see that while Climbing you are flat-footed.

The note in the fly skill is to state that flying does not make you flat-footed, not that you are immune to being flat-footed.


I agree with Quintain. Think of it this way. You are also not considered flat-footed while walking. This seems to me to just be a way to establish the default so that nobody has to ask if you're automatically flat-footed while flying.

The Exchange

Sloppy wording, though.

"Being in flight does not change the circumstances under which a character is flat-footed" would have been better. Maybe somebody else can clarify it still further?


Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

The argument could be made that the incidental motion of a flying creature prevents the easy targeting that is possible against somebody who is walking or swimming.

However, that would not explain why a hovering creature would not be considered flat footed.


DrDew wrote:
I agree with Quintain. Think of it this way. You are also not considered flat-footed while walking. This seems to me to just be a way to establish the default so that nobody has to ask if you're automatically flat-footed while flying.

But what initiates the flat-footed condition has nothing to do with movement and everything to do with initiative order. They don't specify this about swimming, climbing, or burrowing either because it doesn't matter how you're moving, it matters when you're moving. Why, of all the modes of movement, does flying require a special call-out for the purposes of determined whether you're flat-footed?

EDIT: I agree that your interpretation is how things should work. however, the presentation is so awkward that it seems to suggest that, according to Paizo, flying prevents the flat-footed condition from applying at all.


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Gauss wrote:

If you contrast fly with the Climb skill you will see that while Climbing you are flat-footed.

The note in the fly skill is to state that flying does not make you flat-footed, not that you are immune to being flat-footed.

Actually, it states you're denied your Dexterity modifier to AC. Flat-footed is a whole 'nother beast which includes, but is not limited to, denying Dex to AC.

The Exchange

I thought it might be some language that was ported over from the fly spell, originally in that spell description to distinguish it from levitation which, if I remember right, is a spell that makes its subject flat-footed. (Or has that changed?)


Lincoln Hills wrote:
I thought it might be some language that was ported over from the fly spell, originally in that spell description to distinguish it from levitation which, if I remember right, is a spell that makes its subject flat-footed. (Or has that changed?)

Just checked the d20srd.org website, neither Levitation nor Fly has such language in it. I can check my old 3.5 PHB when I get home to verify that.

The Exchange

I'll have a look at my 3.0's, too. It's bugging me. I could have sworn I saw that language at some point.

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