Cad maneuver / multiple attack build for critique


Advice


I'm trying out a human Cad fighter for a potential PFS run and wanted to know if I'm understanding the following rule combinations correctly. Of course, the combination below presumes successful rolls at each link in the chain.

Here are the required feats through seventh level:

1st Combat Expertise
Improved Disarm
Improved Trip
2nd Improved Dirty Trick
3rd Improved Unarmed Strike
4th Combat Reflexes
5th Vicious Stomp
6th Improved Trip
7th Quick Dirty Trick

Here's the proposed "combo", available starting at seventh level, with the presumption of wielding a cutlass and a buckler (therefore having a free hand, as the buckler keeps the offhand available):

* Full attack using Quick Dirty Trick allows for a dirty trick maneuver to substitute for the first melee attack, inflicting the "blinded" condition on the target and therefore denying target's Dexterity bonus to AC for the round.

* Second attack using a trip combat maneuver, as trips can substitute for melee attacks, inflicting the "prone" condition on the target.

* Trip provokes two separate attacks of opportunity, one from Greater Trip and another from Vicious Stomp.

* Vicious Stomp attack of opportunity (which must be unarmed) using a disarm combat maneuver, as disarms can substitute for melee attacks, disarming the target and taking the disarmed weapon into one's own free hand (per disarm rules regarding having an available free hand).

* Greater Trip attack of opportunity is for damage.

* When damaging with Greater Trip attack of opportunity, use Cad Archetype class ability, "Deadly Surprise," to use an immediate action against a target denied Dexterity bonus to AC in order to make a dirty trick combat maneuver, inflicting whichever condition is most useful.

The result of the above is, if successful at each stage, is at least a blinded, prone, disarmed, and damaged target, with a further negative condition appropriate to the situation and being now in possession of the target's disarmed weapon. At eleventh level, Dirty Trick Master allows for these negative conditions to be upgraded to even more damaging ones, improving the combination's potential utility.

What do you all think? Does the above sound correct? Please advise.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Wyrmfoe wrote:
* Vicious Stomp attack of opportunity (which must be unarmed) using a disarm combat maneuver, as disarms can substitute for melee attacks, disarming the target and taking the disarmed weapon into one's own free hand (per disarm rules regarding having an available free hand).

I don't think this one works. Vicious Stomp does not say "must be an unarmed attack", it says "must be an unarmed strike". An unarmed strike is a specific attack with defined damage. A disarm combat maneuver, even when made without using a weapon, is not an unarmed strike.

However, you could certainly make your disarm with the AoO from Greater Trip, since that AoO is not so constrained. And your Vicious Stomp unarmed strike does qualify for Deadly Surprise as that specifically calls out unarmed strike as a trigger.

So you can do it, just not quite like you wrote it.

edit:grammar


Very cool. Thanks.

What do you think? Pretty cool and thematic?

Grand Lodge

I think this would be even better if you can get a friend to play a rogue. I mean, you are basically walking around the battlefield setting up sneak attacks for him...

Just remember that at 7th level, you are going to start running into a lot of opponents who cannot be tripped (oozes, serpentine body types), disarmed (anything with natural attacks), blinded (various supernatural senses.) Make sure you can still contribute in that case.


Dirty tricks provide for a variety of negative conditions, so I'm hopeful there will often be something useful to dispense on behalf of the team.

It is true that disarm and trip become a bit less helpful at higher levels. However, the theme is a swordsman from Galt, playing off the themes of the revolution, so I don't mind losing a bit of utility to maintain flavor.

For what it does, what do you think of the combo and its versatility? I'm trying to key off of Deadly Surprise as much as possible; this seems like one of the better ways to utilize that ability. Are there others you prefer?

Grand Lodge

I think it is a great support build, and when it shines, it will be fun as heck for everyone. But I think it is also one of those builds that if you get too focused on what it does, you can really drag the game to a halt.

Basically, if you spend all round every round inflicting conditions, but there is no one in the party who can capitalize on those conditions, then no one is actually hurting the enemy, and the enemy can't hurt you.

So really, my advice is that the build looks fine, just be ready to drop the shtick and use both your full attacks to pound the target into bloody paste sometimes when you are the only one in position to deal damage. (Or at least trip and use both attacks of opportunity to pound him into paste.)

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