Lvl 5 Nature Oracle Wrecker w / Erosion Touch question.

[Blade]

James Jacobs wrote:

Blade wrote:

James,

Question on Oracles Curses and Revelation abilities:

Two questions that are interrelated.

Would Erosion Touch work with Wrecker's melee attack ability for sundering objects?

Or is a melee touch attack different then a Melee attack?

Thank you for your help!

That's a good question for the rules boards. As a general rule, though, two different supernatural attacks don't really work together that way, since most of them require a standard action to use and thus can't combine. If one of those DOES just modify another attack, then try it out. If the GM thinks it's too good, the option to switch back always exists.

I originally asked James as I was unsure if there was a difference between as part of a melee attack and Melee Touch Attack.

Thanks for the help, it would be an interesting combination. If it works.

[Blade]

Additional info.

This is for a lvl 6 Nature oracle with the Wrecker Curse.

At lvl 5 they get, as part of the curse, the ability to reduce damage reduction by their level to objects they sunder. The wording though kinda got me.

Wrecker words it As part of a Melee Attack...

However Erosion Touch is a Melee Touch Attack. So I was unsure if there was a difference because Erosion touch is part of a an melee attack to sunder an object which falls in line with the lvl 5 wrecker ability.

Again thanks for the help!

[Create Mr. Pitt]

I believe the attacks must be distinct. For instance a Cleric with Vision of Madness must make a melee touch attack to land. They may not combine it with a traditional melee attack. As a general rule special attacks cannot automatically be appended to a normal attack for damage, unless the rules explicitly state otherwise.

[Balgin]

Yes. These two abilities should work together.

The Eroison Touch is a melee touch attack. It is a supernatural ability and therefore a standard action to perform (because it does not say otherwise).

The 5th level portion of the Wrecker Curse is not an ability. It's not something that you activate. It's always on. "Whenever you attempt to damage an object with a melee attack..."

A melee touch attack is a melee attack. It just targets touch ac instead of full ac.

So far so good. This should all work together however.... the erosion power also states that "if used against an object in another creature’s possession, treat this attack as a sunder combat maneuver."

Combat maneuvers don't involve hardness. The Wrecker's Curse won't help your CMB if someone is wearing or using the item you're trying to break. It might but that's up to the GM's discretion.

It should be perfectly fine against unattended objects 'though.

That's quite a powerful little combination you've found there.

[Balgin]

Create Mr. Pitt wrote:

I believe the attacks must be distinct. For instance a Cleric with Vision of Madness must make a melee touch attack to land. They may not combine it with a traditional melee attack. As a general rule special attacks cannot automatically be appended to a normal attack for damage, unless the rules explicitly state otherwise.

A melee touch attack is a sub set/sub category of melee attack. A melee touch attack cannot be combined with a normal melee attack but things that can be used as part of a melee attack can be used as part of a melee touch attack.

The other thing to remember is that the curse is not optional. It does not grant you the ability to affect melee attacks against objects. It is automatically used as part of the attack because the curse is there.

Now the wording is subjective. It does not say may or must. Normally the Pathfinder rules do not tell you what you cannot do. They tell you what you can. In the case of Oracle's curses they'll often tell you that you may or can do something. Or they just tell you what it is. In this case I'm inclined to say that this is a permanent part of the curse and will always happen.

Of course I'd be happy to be proved wrong and fully respect anyone's choice to believe otherwise :).

[Blade]

Thanks Guys!

You brought up some points I didn't think about and I had the blinders on when I didn't separate the Melee Touch / Consider Sunder attempt.

So in one instance it works on unattended objects because it would be considered a melee attack involving touch ac.

The sunder though wouldn't work as its a CMB. Makes sense and removes the possible abuse IMO.

Thanks again and I will monitor this thread for further posts.

Basically I am creating a Urban wrecking Lizardfolk, who can literally destroy support beams or walls on buildings and cause some structural issues for those encroaching on her homeland. :)