Detect Thoughts and Stealth

[maouse]

How do these abilities interact with each other?

Do people still need to be able to see the target of the spell (like normal spells) to detect thoughts (which works through doors usually... soooooo....)?

Or is this an exception to the rule that you have to see a target? And In general would it then take the person 3 rounds to determine exactly where the stealth hidden mind was (even if they could "see" them with the spell)?

[blahpers]

From the spell description:

Quote:

This spell does not let you determine the location of the thinking minds if you can't see the creatures whose thoughts you are detecting.

The spell may tip you off that someone is nearby in your cone-shaped emanation, but it won't reveal their location.

[maouse]

Right, then you get a DC 20 perception check to determine the square they are in?

So it does basically "let you see them" in the end (after a perception check). Even if you don't "see them" (say they are invisible).

[laarddrym]

No, CR is "challenge rating", a term that is reserved for how difficult monsters and encounters are (and therefore how much XP players get for overcoming the challenge).

You would already get a free Perception check vs. the stealthy person's Stealth check as per the stealth rules: The result of their Stealth check determines the difficulty (DC) of your Perception check. You can also choose to roll Perception as an action during your turn, but I can't remember at the moment if that is a standard or move action.

Also, as Blahpers pointed out, the spell would reveal that someone within the cone of the spell is present cuz you can hear their thoughts, but you do not automatically pinpoint their square or see the person who is hiding. The spell does not even give you a free Perception check. It would simply alert you to the fact that a sentient creature with discernable thoughts is within the area of the cone. You would have to find out any other information about that creature (what the creature is, who the creature is, how big the creature is, where it is, etc) through other means.

[maouse]

Changed it to DC. And as far as I have ever read, it is only a DC 20 check to see what square an invisible person is in.

Spoiler:

A Perception check that beats the DC by 20 reveals the unseen creature’s square (but the unseen creature still has total concealment from the blinded creature).

The "stealth roll" DC is to see if you can determine if someone is there at all or not. If you don't meet their DC you can't even roll to see what square they are in. IF, though, you are detecting thoughts, and pick up a brain "in the area" you can roll for the DC20 to determine where in the "cone" it is... I would presume?