Can a magus use harmful surge?

[Ravingdork]

From Ultimate Magic's Spellbook section:

Harmful Surge (Su) You can maximize a spell, but doing so damages you. Spend this boon effect as a free action when you cast a wizard evocation spell. When you do, you can treat that spell as if it were cast with the Maximize Spell metamagic feat, but you take 1d4 points of damage × the level of the spell that you are maximizing. The damage you take cannot be reduced in any way.

Can a magus take advantage of this ability, since many of his evocation spells fall on the wizard spell list? Or does it have to be a wizard casting the wizard spell? Would spell blending the spell from the wizard list make any difference?

[The Morphling]

It has to be a Wizard spell. Same reason that a multiclass Wizard/Magus cannot use his Magus class features which require Magus spells on spells from his Wizard slots - even if they're also on the Magus list.

Spell Blending doesn't help either - he adds them to the Magus list, adding more options to the set of Magus Spells... but they're still not Wizard spells.

[Mathius]

I think that technically you could not do it all because I think that to count as a wizard spell it needs to be cast out of a wizards spell slot. If magus casts a spell it is a magus spell.

Personally I see no reason to limit it to wizards and exclude the magus. On the page in your link the magus is not mentioned at all. I think the intent of the word wizard was to keep and alchemist from using it. I would allow any arcane spell prepared with the correct book to work.

[The Morphling]

Mathius wrote:

I think that technically you could not do it all because I think that to count as a wizard spell it needs to be cast out of a wizards spell slot. If magus casts a spell it is a magus spell.

Exactly correct.

Mathius wrote:

Personally I see no reason to limit it to wizards and exclude the magus. On the page in your link the magus is not mentioned at all. I think the intent of the word wizard was to keep and alchemist from using it. I would allow any arcane spell prepared with the correct book to work.

An excellent house rule, to be sure.

[Ravingdork]

Why would they exclude the magus though?

[wraithstrike]

It is a wizard spell and the magus can cast wizard spells so it should work.

Spellbooks are no longer exclusively tied to wizards so that is another reason I think it is a non-issue.

I guess I better gives rules support

Quote:

Using Preparation Rituals

When a spellcaster who prepares spells uses a spellbook or formula book with a preparation ritual, as long as he prepares at least three spells (not including cantrips) or formulae from the spellbooks, he gains a temporary boon granted by the ritual.

Not that is calls out spellcaster as a generic term, not the wizard class so being a wizard is not necessary to gain effects of the ritual.

[wraithstrike]

If the spell is only on the wizard list then I agree with the other posters, but if the spell is on both list, then it should work. <----clarification.

[LazarX]

Ravingdork wrote:

From Ultimate Magic's Spellbook section:

Harmful Surge (Su) You can maximize a spell, but doing so damages you. Spend this boon effect as a free action when you cast a wizard evocation spell. When you do, you can treat that spell as if it were cast with the Maximize Spell metamagic feat, but you take 1d4 points of damage × the level of the spell that you are maximizing. The damage you take cannot be reduced in any way.

Can a magus take advantage of this ability, since many of his evocation spells fall on the wizard spell list? Or does it have to be a wizard casting the wizard spell? Would spell blending the spell from the wizard list make any difference?

When a magus casts a spell it is a magus spell, not a wizard spell, despite it's presence on the wizard list. It only is a wizard spell when cast from wizard spell slots.

[wraithstrike]

I retract my statement. I thought a magus could cast some wizard spells, but that is not the case. He adds them to his list as magus spells, and that is not the same as casting them as a wizard.

It would be just like being able to add cleric spells to the magus list. He might have been able to cast them, but he is casting them as magus spells, not as cleric spells.

[wraithstrike]

Ravingdork wrote:

Why would they exclude the magus though?

Most likely the magus was just not thought of when the rule was made.

[LoneKnave]

I think the same way Oracles should use CHA to determine the effect of cleric spells they cast instead of WIS, this should work with Magi.

[SteelDraco]

This is a case of the mechanics not being written to support future expansion, I think. Personally I would say "prepared arcane spellcaster" or something similar instead of just "wizard", but that uses up more words, which are a valuable resource in printed product.

RAW, no, but I think most GMs would consider it reasonable.

[The Morphling]

Interesting note: Most of the spellbook boons do not specify "wizard spell." This is the exception, not the rule.

[wraithstrike]

I would allow it at a home game, but the rules are not supporting it, so as a PFS GM I would not allow it.