Item Pricing: Blinkback Efficient Quiver

[Anticleon]

What would be appropriate pricing for the following item, which adds a modified Blinkback Belt to an Efficient Quiver?

Here is the regular Blinkback Belt:

Blinkback Belt wrote:

Aura moderate conjuration; CL 7th
Slot belt; Price 5,000 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
DESCRIPTION

A set of clips is attached to this segmented belt constructed of metallic links.

Up to two one-handed melee weapons or up to four light melee weapons can be hung from the belt in straps or sheaths. When the wearer draws a weapon attached to this belt and throws it before the end of her next turn, the weapon teleports back to its strap or sheath immediately after the attack is resolved.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Wondrous Item, teleport object; Cost 2,500 gp.

Here is my proposed Blinkback Efficient Quiver (new text italicized)

Blinkback Efficient Quiver wrote:

Aura moderate conjuration; CL 10th
Slot —; Price 11,800 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
DESCRIPTION

This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible.

The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape As a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.

When the owner draws a weapon within the quiver and drops it before the end of her next turn, the weapon teleports back within the quiver immediately after it leaves the owner's hands.

CONSTRUCTION REQUIREMENTS
Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest, teleport object; Cost 5,900 gp.

This item is meant to (effectively) allow a weapon to be sheathed in the Efficient Quiver as a free action. It could allow a switch hitter (with Quick Draw) to go from bow to longsword to bow without spending a move action picking up the bow from the ground, or an archer with multiple bows (and Quick Draw) to shoot an arrow from each (up to their number of iterative attacks) during a full-round attack.

My reading of the Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Value rules is that the item would cost 11800 GP: 1800 for Efficient Quiver + (5000 for Blinkback Belt x 2 for slotless). This doesn't add anything to the price for the different Blinkback effect though.

Is this a fair price for this custom item? To my knowledge, the only other similar effect is the "called" weapon ability, which is priced as a +1 modifier.

[Cap. Darling]

Are you conna Throw the bows? The Blink back belt dosent blink back stuff you drop on the Ground as a free action. What you want is not a combination of two items but just a upgraded quiver.
This is far in to ask Your GM territory.
Why do you want to change bows between shots?
But unless i am missing somthing, and you dont plan to recycle your arrows some how. I Think 10000 seems about rigth.
Edit: and let it blink back stuff you have had in your hands for more than a round as well.

[Anticleon]

Yeah, I know it's not the same as blinkback belt, but I was using that as a price indication for the similar effect. I mainly want it for character theme reasons, so I can fire off different types of arrow using different bow enchants every round. I would use abundant ammo plus greater magic weapon to get plus to hit and damage.

[Excaliburproxy]

Arrows still have the same chance of being lost, right? Otherwise this is OP, yo.

[Anticleon]

Yeah, just teleports dropped weapons into the "same size as a bow" pouch, doesn't affect ammo.

Could be upgraded with additional effects like abundant ammo and greatet magic weapon to solve the ammo problem, but that would be very expensive.

[Dragonchess Player]

Anticleon wrote:

Is this a fair price for this custom item? To my knowledge, the only other similar effect is the "called" weapon ability, which is priced as a +1 modifier.

See gauntlets of the weaponmaster:

Ultimate Equipment wrote:

Gauntlets of the Weaponmaster

Price 110,000 gp; Aura strong conjuration; CL 10th; Weight 5 lbs.

These gauntlets come in a variety of forms. Some are mostly leather with small steel plates, and are suited for fine swordplay. Others are fully articulated plate favored by knights in full plate. On command, the wearer of the gauntlet can store a single weapon he is holding in the gauntlets. When he does so, a graven image of the weapon appears on the gauntlet's plates. The wearer can store up to 10 weapons in the gauntlets in this manner. Retrieving a weapon requires the wearer to touch the image of the weapon he wants. Doing so is a swift action. When a weapon is retrieved, it appears in the hands of the wearer and any weapons the wearer had in his hands is stored in the gauntlets. If there is no room in the gauntlet for the weapons the wearer is holding, those weapons are dropped. The gauntlets can only store weapons; other items cannot be placed in the gauntlet.

Furthermore, three times per day on command, the gloves affect the wearer as the greater heroism spell.

Construction Requirements

Cost 55,000 gp

Craft Wondrous Item, heroism, rope trick

Reverse engineering a version without greater heroism three times per day gives a market price of around 25,000-30,000 gp. Also note that this item only makes it a swift action to change weapons, not a free action.

[Anticleon]

Thank you for mentioning that - it's an interesting item. I've listed the items' qualities that I think should affect pricing.

Weaponmaster Gauntlets:
1. draw weapon as a swift action (instead of a move action)
2. sheathe weapon as a free action (whenever you spend a swift to draw)
3. create an extradimensional space that stores 10 weapons of any size

Modified Blinkback:
1. no draw effect (still takes a move action without Quick Draw)
2. sheathe weapon as a free action (effectively)
3. does not create extradimensional space (teleports item to quiver)

I think that the modified Blinkback quality should be priced quite a bit cheaper than the weapon storage property on the gauntlets though, because the gauntlets have a swift draw effect (which is like a half feat) and create an extradimensional space.

Also, the Weaponmaster Gauntlets seem like the kind of item nobody ever buys because its weapon storage effect isn't worth the price.

[Cap. Darling]

Anticleon wrote:

...

Also, the Weaponmaster Gauntlets seem like the kind of item nobody ever buys because its weapon storage effect isn't worth the price.

This is my impression as well.

[Dragonchess Player]

Anticleon wrote:

3. does not create extradimensional space (teleports item to quiver)

Incorrect. "It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible." (emphasis mine)

The main difference between the efficient quiver and the weaponmaster gauntlets is you have to use normal actions to retrieve and store objects ("as if from a regular quiver or scabbard," not an extradimensional space) from the quiver, while the gauntlets switch any weapons you are holding for any weapon stored as a swift action (effectively combining sheathe and draw into one action). The gain in action economy is the main reason for the higher market price of the gauntlets' storage ability; most of the item's market price comes from the greater heroism effect.

The 25,000-30,000 gp version of the gauntlets (without the greater heroism effect) is the closest equivalent to what your are asking for regarding the weapon switching. Adding the ammo storage on top of that should make the item more expensive; your blinkback efficient quiver should have an estimated market price of at least 51,800 gp (25,000 gp x 2 for a non-slot item + 1,800 gp for the ammo storage of an efficient quiver).

[Dragonchess Player]

Also, note that a glove of storing, which allows the free action storage and retrieval of a single item has a market price of 10,000 gp as a slot item. You are proposing an item that allows the free action storage and retrieval (with Quick Draw) of multiple items for basically the same price in a non-slot item (and including additional storage).

Sorry, that is not fair pricing.

[Dragonchess Player]

Cap. Darling wrote:

Anticleon wrote:

...

Also, the Weaponmaster Gauntlets seem like the kind of item nobody ever buys because its weapon storage effect isn't worth the price.

This is my impression as well.

Oh, it's worth it... at the appropriate level (19th or 20th).

Case and point: A dwarf ranger 16/fighter (phalanx soldier) 4 who wears mithral prismatic plate, a mithral wyrmslayer's shield, a greater belt of mighty hurling, and juggernaut's pauldrons, while using gauntlets of the weaponmaster to store an adamantine dwarven thrower, dragon's doom, a +3 cunning huntsman hooked lance, a spirit blade, summoner's sorrow, a sun blade, and four javelins of lightning for the ability to switch to the appropriate weapon depending on the opponent.

[Anticleon]

You make some good points. I guess it depends whether you are pricing based on the utility of the item or the in-game effect of the item.

The in-game effect of the blinkback belt is to automatically teleport thrown weapons back to their sheaths on the belt. Automatically teleporting dropped weapons back to their sheaths doesn't seem like more powerful magic in-game. Of course, the original belt only worked for two one-handed weapons or four light weapons, so extending that to two+ bows would be more powerful and expensive.

From a utility point of view, the blinkback belt is probably so cheap because throwing is usually not very good, and it takes up the very useful belt slot. It makes sense to price for utility because that's how players tend to decide what to buy, but in-game thinking comes more naturally to me.

I guess one of the reasons I'm reluctant to have it priced highly is because, for my character, it's for flavour not mechanics. Still, a lot of gms houserule quick draw as allowing quick sheathe too, so I'll bring that up with him as an alternative.

As an FYI, the flavour I'm going for for my archer paladin is Gilgamesh from Fate/Zero. One of his cool powers is to summon swords from multiple portals to rain down upon his enemies. I figure that I may be able to flavour-text this while mechanically just normally firing arrows from my bow, As the summoned swords are all different, I'd like my character to be able to fire different enchanted shots each round ,which can get expensive with arrow enchants. Anyway, my char will have to earn that awesomeness, I'm a ways off from deserving it yet.

Thanks for contributing to the thread.

[BigDTBone]

Weapon master has free store/swift draw + extra dimensional storeage that can only be accessed by the user.

Blinkback quiver has free store/ move draw + extra dimensional storeage that can be pilfered by anyone close enough to get a hand near it.

Pricing vs weapon master gauntlets would seem about half as good for half the price so about 15,000 gp

Pricing building up puts it at 12700gp. (5000gp belt)x2(slotless)+(1800gp quiver)x(1.5 second enchantment)

So 12700~15000 seems right.