Using a grappling hook or arrow, you are supposed to make a ranged attack with AC10 (5 in open spaces).
What exactly does the "range increment" of 10 feet for the hook and 30 feet for the arrow mean?
My party is facing an 80' cliff wall. They want to tie two silk ropes to either the grappling hook or grappling arrow and throw/fire it up on top of the cliff into the trees.
Surely this isn't just a ranged attack AC5?
What if they miss, are there repercussions? Or is this a take ten situation
Rnage increments is how far you can shoot before you start taking penalties. There is also a maximum range, usually described as multiples of the range increment. I believe it's 10 range increments for bows and such, 5 for thrown weapons.
So, with a 30ft range for the grappling arrow after 30ft and every 30ft there after you start taking a -2 to your attack roll.
Range: Any attack at more than this distance is penalized for range. Beyond this range, the attack takes a cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment (or fraction thereof) of distance to the target. For example, a dagger (with a range of 10 feet) thrown at a target that is 25 feet away would incur a –4 penalty. A thrown weapon has a maximum range of five range increments. A projectile weapon can shoot to 10 range increments.
I wouldn't let them take 10 on the attack roll, though whether that can happen is relatively unimportant. The good news is that no it is not simply an "AC 5". The AC will remain 5, but using the grappling hook it will have a penalty of -14 (-2 for each increment after 10 ft, 80ft total, 7 increments, 2*7=14) to the attack roll, effcitvely AC 19. Still pretty low, but might be a problem for low level characters.
With a grappling arrow it becomes easier. It's only two range increments, so only a -4 penalty.
Also, they still have to climb the rope. And, you would be fair to rule the hook/arrow can't support more than one character at a time. Unless there are multiple small characters.
What if they miss, are there repercussions? Or is this a take ten situation
Are enemies near? Can the rope/hook be damaged with a miss (shooting across a lava flow or wall of fire etc) ? Is there no possible disadvantage then allow take 10.
Since 80 ft is more than 5 range increments, I don't think you can throw a grappling hook far enough. You would need use an arrow.
I agree with others, since it is not a skill check (using the grappling hook) you cannot take 10. If your GM is mean, and you miss the roll, you may need to make a reflex save to avoid taking a grappling hook to the face. The real danger in this operation would be the climb checks to get up. An 80ft climb is a long time to be exposed (and flat footed) on a cliff face. Also a long time for the party to be split as half the party may be on top, half on the bottom.
Since 80 ft is more than 5 range increments, I don't think you can throw a grappling hook far enough. You would need use an arrow.
I agree with others, since it is not a skill check (using the grappling hook) you cannot take 10. If your GM is mean, and you miss the roll, you may need to make a reflex save to avoid taking a grappling hook to the face. The real danger in this operation would be the climb checks to get up. An 80ft climb is a long time to be exposed (and flat footed) on a cliff face. Also a long time for the party to be split as half the party may be on top, half on the bottom.
That's a good point, and I had just quoted that rule.
So, the only option is thr grappling hook arrow. Which also has a fairly trivial penalty at that distance.
And since Jay reminded me,
Taking 10 and Taking 20
A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions, increasing the odds of success.
Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.
Taking 20: When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you roll a d20 enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to concentration checks or caster level checks.
Taking 10 is for skill and ability checks only. Never attacks rolls. They cannot take 10, because despite no enemies being present it's still an attack roll. Not a skill or ability check.
Rules wise, you can't take 10 or 20.
Practicality wise, if there is no penalty for failure and no time limit, just assign some time to it and call it a Nat 20.
Or, roll dice until you get it. It will have the exact same effect at the table, except for boring all your friends that have to wait/hold actions/pass/ready action for each round.