What happens when a Projected Image is attacked?

[Kryptik]

So...let's talk about Project Image for a minute. The effect is that it produces "one shadow duplicate." It offers a saving throw if it is interacted with.

"You tap energy from the Plane of Shadow to create a quasi-real, illusory version of yourself. The projected image looks, sounds, and smells like you but is intangible. The projected image mimics your actions (including speech) unless you direct it to act differently (which is a move action)."

Ok, so far so good. You can use it as an origination point to cast spells, etc. Fine.

So what happens when it is attacked?

I'd say the attacker must spend his attack, and *then* that would meet the qualification of "interacted with."

The real question is, does the image, for all intents and purposes, have the same stats as you? Same AC, HP, saves, etc?

If not, then how do you adjudicate attacking it? If the attacker fails the save to disbelieve, does one go through the motions of AC, damage, etc, even though it is "intangible?"

If it is a "clone" of you, what happens when it is hit by status-inducing spells (ie being Stunned, or Blinded, etc?)

Can you Bull Rush an Image?

This is going to come up tomorrow night, and it is a fairly pivotal aspect of the final encounter. I am going to have some angry players if I don't have everything in order.

Thanks for any assistance.

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Once you attack it you interact, you automatically disbelieve because you know it is not an illusion. If there is reason to study the image, and an opponent does and makes a will save then that opponent would disbelieve. There is no save once you attack, as demonstrated by the absurdity of the notion of check to hit on an intangible image.

[Kryptik]

That seems...insanely weak for a 7th level spell.

[Rogue Eidolon]

The text isn't completely clear.

How I run it: Much like with any of the typical figments, attacking is a form of interaction, granting a save each time. Since it's a fake, they are always going to fail to hit, but on a failed save, they might think it's because they simply missed. Certainly a lot of suspicious missing might give cause to attempt a move action to study for another Will save.

[Umbral Reaver]

It's not insanely weak. It's amazing. Even if they realise it's an illusion, you can still use it as the origin point for spells while hiding somewhere safe (so long as you maintain line of sight to the image; a clever enemy may try to block sight to it to end the spell).

[Create Mr. Pitt]

Who cares if they realize it's an image. The spell isn't just about suck action economy (although it still does a good job of that because all the other creatures in the room still need to make a Will save, with a +4 bonus if they are told by the disbelieving creature. It's about "walking" amidst the pack of enemies, delivering touch spells, and generally being frustrating. It's also useful in perilous social situations. If you expect an ambush or betrayal, hide nearby, send out your image.

[Norgrim Malgus]

Well, I read it as since the image is just that, an image and intangible, stats serve no purpose. It has no substance and attacks, beyond the ability to save for disbelief, have no affect. Dispel Magic would be a good idea or some other spell which can shut it down, and then you have to find the caster of the image and shut him/her down.

This is one of those spells that assumes a caster is hiding or invisible and wants to affect things with little or no risk to themselves, as an example.

Edit: Umbral Reaver and Create Mr. Pitt beat me to the punch ;)

[Kryptik]

Here's a twist. If Project Image is intangible, and has no substance, how do you reconcile this bit of text?

"If you desire, any spell you cast whose range is touch or greater can originate from the projected image instead of from you."

So, a thing that cannot be touched can touch things?

[Kryptik]

Here's another one:

With the understanding that Project Image describes itself as intangible, and yet can somehow make touch attacks, what would prevent it from sharing a square with another creature? And, assuming no one has disbelieved yet, would that prompt a Will save?

[Create Mr. Pitt]

The touch range or greater is simply the function of the spell. It's very clearly an illusion and operates as other illusions unless it explicitly states otherwise. Not if it can be implied from one particular and stretched reading of the rule. It simply doesn't do what you want, if interacting the party interacted with is given a Will save. In particular, note the spell also says that objects are treated as if they always make their save.

I do believe an image could "share" the space with another creature, but it would automatically allow disbelief and clearly indicate an illusion. This I am not sure about though. I guess I'd be curious to hear what other people say, but it strikes me that illusion has no substance so should theoretically be able to "share" a space in some ways, but is not really there.

[Kryptik]

Create Mr. Pitt, it's not about what I want with regards to the encounter, it's about establishing what happens. "What I want" is to have a clear and ordered set of illusion rules.

What is the "stretched reading" which you mention? My post just above? If so, it's not stretched at all. I am literally trying to comprehend how an intangible thing can deliver a spell via touching something else.

I am also struggling with the fact of why do Figments get an AC (10+size modifier) while Shadows (more powerful) don't. And also if someone "hits" the AC bonus of the figment but fails the save to disbelieve, how to adjudicate what comes next.

[Umbral Reaver]

Projected image is kind of two separate effects in one spell.

1. It creates an illusion of you. This can be disbelieved as a normal illusion.

2. You can cast touch and ranged spells from its location. Its status as an illusion (disbelieved or not) does not affect this property at all.

[Norgrim Malgus]

Kryptik wrote:

Here's a twist. If Project Image is intangible, and has no substance, how do you reconcile this bit of text?

"If you desire, any spell you cast whose range is touch or greater can originate from the projected image instead of from you."

So, a thing that cannot be touched can touch things?

I try to look at it from the perspective of one form of spell energy, in this case Project Image, acting as a medium for other types of spell energy. Although the Image may not be able to touch you in the traditional sense, the spell energy that it is holding on to for that touch attack can affect the target.

Like Umbral Reaver touched on concerning separate effects wrapped up in one spell, I would view Project Image as having an improved version of Spectral Hand as a part of the overall spell which is why I would consider that as the reason it can deliver touch attacks. It would be similar enough in concept.