Mounted Combat and Handle Animal

[Kryx]

I've previously assumed that one can command a mount to attack with a simple ride check. After reading Handle Animal While Mounted I'm thinking a handle animal may be required.
Here is another thread from 2005, lulz: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?116127-Mounted-Combat-Handle-An imal-to-attack-or-not

Related rules:

Core Rulebook wrote:

Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.

Core Rulebook wrote:

You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

Ride wrote:

Fight with a Combat-Trained Mount: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.

On re-reading this it seems the ride check only allows you to make an attack. It does not allow you to direct your mount to attack.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20050201a wrote:

Fight Along with Your Mount: Make a DC 10 Ride check as a free action. If you succeed, you can direct your mount to attack a foe and you also can attack as well. See the section on attacking while mounted for details. If you fail this check, or don't bother to make it, either you or your mount can attack this turn, but not both of you.

Again brings up the directing your mount, but worded in that it allows you to direct your mount.

What is the best RAW/RAI ruling on directing your war trained mount to attack?

[Starglim]

Handle Animal (Attack trick). If you make a mounted charge and your mount doesn't attack, you're simply using your mount to move, which doesn't require any check.

The wizards.com quote is a D&D 3.5 advice article and unfortunately is a questionable rephrasing of what D&D 3.5 actually said, which is the same as Pathfinder:

D&D 3.5 SRD wrote:

Fight with Warhorse: If you direct your war-trained mount to attack in battle, you can still make your own attack or attacks normally. This usage is a free action.

I'm sorry to say I regarded Sage Advice at the time as a pleasant read, but not an authority if our group read the rules differently.

[Kryx]

Ok, let's assume the handle animal version is correct.

Normal attacking with mount:
1. Your mount moves as it's own move action.
2. You then can make a standard action (assuming you've moved more than 5ft)

Attacking with your mount attacking as well
1. Your mount moves as it's own move action.
2. You then make a DC 10 Handle Animal to make your mount attack. If success proceed to 3, otherwise skip to 4
3. You then make a DC 5 ride check to see if you can attack as well. If success proceed to 4, otherwise stop.
2. You then can make a standard action (assuming you've moved more than 5ft)

Having your mount attack seems to risk you not being able to attack unless you make two rolls. That seems silly - I would always choose the first option until option 2 was pretty much guaranteed.

[Starglim]

With any amount of investment beyond 1st or 2nd level, you shouldn't be at risk of failing the Handle Animal check if the mount is your animal companion and is trained to attack the type of creature you're facing, or failing the Ride check if you're a cavalier. As with a number of skills and other subsystems, certain actions become routine for appropriately focused characters, so, for them, in fact it is guaranteed.

[Fabian Stretton]

WHEN WILL PAIZO FIX THIS POORLY WORDED PIECE OF CONFUSION

From my perspective - and based on limited exposure to medieval combat.

If you are mounted and want to make the animal attack - ride checks.
- Most knights weren't paladins OR charismatic, nor were the Huns,
or Hannibals elephant handlers. Directing your mount to attack, charge,
move, jump, etc - are all things that require a riding skill.

If you are NOT mounted (See pets/tricks) - then use Handle Animal. This would ALSO apply to any mounts when you are not riding them.

You ALSO need handle animal to train anything.

Very simple / very clear / doesn't NERF anything (the way that needing handle animal AND ride for mounted combat does). Most of the best mounted warriors in history were not paladins, and the rules should NOT require them to be.