First off, yes, yes, we have a hundred of these threads, I know. We all know there's problems with these classes, though the rogue is more in being outpaced and the monk in just being non-effective in many ways.
But of course, they pop up in campaigns anyway because a) They're classics and b) martial arts and backstabbing, woot.
So here's my 'fix' to the classes that I plan to use in my campaign- was hoping for opinions.
Monk
Flurry of Blows changes entirely, Diamond Soul receives a quick fix.
Rogue
Rogue receives a new ability at third level, and at seventh.
This isn't the sort of thing I'd toss out in a pdf, but for a home campaign I think it might work. Any thoughts? Am I maybe missing a broken option these provide, or are these superfluous to the problems?
That's a terrible change to Flurry of Blows. Now they're no better than a rogue when full-attacking? That's the only way besides combat maneuvers a monk is worth anything offensively these days. Maybe change Ki Pool for the 'attack as a swift action' would be better. The Diamond Soul change isn't bad, though it's going to strain their swift action economy even further.
Cunning is interesting, but it becomes a waste once they manage to get Agile slapped on their favorite light weapon. Dexterity being THE rogue stat, I know which one I'd certainly prioritize. Mark is kind of neat, though for simplicity sake you might consider just removing the 'one target per hour' thing.
Re: Flurry of Blows
True, the BAB hit would suck. Could always make the swift action attack hit at fighter BAB? But I'm not sure I like that one.
Re: Cunning
Yeah, the AC is often the better choice, but I wanted the option there; particularly for low-level characters. Note that the damage would also apply to things like thrown daggers, so it's got an interesting niche or two.
Why not just keep the old Flurry, but make it so that when the Monk makes the attack action, he counts as full BaB and makes 2 attacks (but with a -2 to hit)?
Monks
I just removed FoB and replaced it with an scaling bonus to attack rolls made with unarmed strikes, natural weapons and Monk weapons (+1 at 1s level and another +1 for every 5 Monk levels, so it evens out wih full BAB), then gave them the TWF feat chain for free. This way they can move without losing accuracy and actually qualify for taking TWF-related stuff if they want. Simple and effective.
I also give them the MoMS archetype for free (i.e.: doesn't take anything away, just gives them stuff).
There are a few other minor changes, but they are mostly about simplfying a few class features (e.g.: Slow Fall simpy reduces fall damage by 1d6 per Monk level) or adding something flavorful (e.g.: Monks can deal slashing and piercing damage with their unarmed strikes, even if they don't have he appropriate style feats).
Fixing Rogues... Required some extra effort...
Re: Adam B- Eh, I dunno. I'm liking the swift action just because it already allows for an extra attack with a full round, or a pair of attacks with a move; that version really only does the latter.
Re: Lemmy- I don't like the idea of all my monks being Moms, pun intended :P But I don't hate the two weapon fighting feat chain idea. As far as your rogue, I've taken an admittedly quick look; it's alright, but it really pigeonholes the rogue flavor, IMO. I'd rather do a quick and very open fix if at all possible, something that'd be tacked on rather than rewriting a vast portion of the class.
Re: Adam B- Eh, I dunno. I'm liking the swift action just because it already allows for an extra attack with a full round, or a pair of attacks with a move; that version really only does the latter.
Re: Lemmy- I don't like the idea of all my monks being Moms, pun intended :P But I don't hate the two weapon fighting feat chain idea. As far as your rogue, I've taken an admittedly quick look; it's alright, but it really pigeonholes the rogue flavor, IMO. I'd rather do a quick and very open fix if at all possible, something that'd be tacked on rather than rewriting a vast portion of the class.
The monk can spend a ki point as a swift action already to get an additional attack. You are basically waiving this ki point cost?
Also, forgive me if I am mistaken, but I thought that your initial post was having that FoB replace the current FoB.
It's slightly different than it's currently written. With my version, the monk could take a double move and still make a swift action attack. (And no ki point cost, yes. And yes, this would replace the current FoB.)
Re: Lemmy- I don't like the idea of all my monks being Moms, pun intended :P But I don't hate the two weapon fighting feat chain idea.
I really the like MoMS archetype, but giving the archetype for free doesn't meaan Monks necessarily have to focus on style feats, it just opens the possibility. Monks still get their usual list of bonus feat.
I should probably have mentioned that I houseruled most non-caster feats to scale on their own based on BAB or class level (e.g.: Improved Trip scales to include Greater Trip at BAB +6 or Monk level 6)
As far as your rogue, I've taken an admittedly quick look; it's alright, but it really pigeonholes the rogue flavor, IMO. I'd rather do a quick and very open fix if at all possible, something that'd be tacked on rather than rewriting a vast portion of the class.
How does it pidgeonhole Rogues? Honest question.
Players can pick and choose whatever abilities better fit their intended role and character theme. They can even choose any two skills and make them class skills, and their list of weapons they are proficient with was expanded.
While the homebrew does allow Rogues to invest on Dex/Int/Cha without suffering for it, it in no ways stops Str/Wis builds.
Something ive considered, is moving ki pool to 2nd level, staple on quinggong with no swapouts, and redoing quinggong itself with better spell-likes. Basically a psuedo spell list(and come on, that's like so in your purview it hurts)
Hey Lemmy,
I like the change you made to minor and major magic. Do you think that it would be reasonable to allow the major magic talent to be taken more than once, each time you can choose a spell one level higher, up to level six spells?
Hey Lemmy,
I like the change you made to minor and major magic. Do you think that it would be reasonable to allow the major magic talent to be taken more than once, each time you can choose a spell one level higher, up to level six spells?
Spending a "feat" for a single spell? I don't think it'd be even close to being OP, although I'm likely the minority on that subject. (There are very few things in this game that I consider truly overpowered. Almost none of them can be achieved by non-casters). It should have some level requirement, though, otherwise, a 7th level Rogue could possibly cast 6th level spells.
I was actually going to give more stuff to that homebrew (starting with a 2nd good save, possibly allowing the player to choose which one at 1st level), but I wanted to keep it close to the vanilla Rogue so that players can more easily incorporate it in their games.
That said, if you're going to invest that heavily in spell-casting, a Bard or Alchemist is probably a more fitting choice.
After some review and reading up on ideas, I think I know what I'm going to do for the monk's flurry of blows- though I think I'll keep the rogue as I changed it, and monk's Diamond Soul change works pretty darn fine.
This means they can actually take advantage of fast movement or Vital Strike (JUMP KICK!) stuff, if that's the angle they want to go down.
After some review and reading up on ideas, I think I know what I'm going to do for the monk's flurry of blows- though I think I'll keep the rogue as I changed it, and monk's Diamond Soul change works pretty darn fine.
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
This means they can actually take advantage of fast movement or Vital Strike (JUMP KICK!) stuff, if that's the angle they want to go down.
any regards to the expanded quinggong list of ki powers i threw out there? Burning a ki for the equivalent of a quickened bulls strength could do lots for the monk for example. I am sure you could find loads of other spells that add well thematically.
The qing-monk is already a well-working archetype (that's playable!), and I wouldn't change much if any of it. It's the base monk that needs help xP